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Thread: Your Knowledge Needed 358 Bear

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Your Knowledge Needed 358 Bear

    O.K. Finally seeing some bear activity on the trail cameras, neighbor got a 368 lb male last year close to my cameras. Here's the question, 358 254 gr boolit 1875-1900 fps. (my accurate load so far) Do ya'll think I could get a complete pass thru 125 yds on a 400 #er taking the off side shoulder, or should I try to up the speed before season? Thanks for all input! Jim

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I would sure hope so considering a 255 grain 44 caliber handgun at 1100 fps will.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Bear are no harder to kill than deer. They just don’t seem to expire as quick so a good size exit hole for blood trailing is mandatory IMO. Your choice will work fine as long as you hit them in the vitals.

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks for the response guys. I've taken several deer using RCBS 35-200 with good success, trying to stay in the vitals only (Meat Eater Yum). But I have read where a lot of bear hunters like to take out a wheel on the oft side to reduce travel opportunities. Jim

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    I think your bullet and velocity are fine. I would cast from WW quenched. Not allot harder & lil softer OK.

    Black Bears kill easy enough, trouble is that there fat layer and thick fur clots blood quickly so you need to anchor them with broken bones. Bear can cover remarkable distances mortally wounded. And tracking a animal with little or no spoor is difficult for most.

    Good luck!

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    IMHO, that load combo should also pass threw length wise. Aim small hit small and have fun.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    A friend of mine who has maybe 40+ bears to his credit has told me, "To kill a bear or any animal, you need to shoot at the kill zone and not the bear. Most people shoot at the animal and give no thought to the kill zone."
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
    white eagle's Avatar
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    that boolit and velocity will pass through 2 bear
    and bury in the dirt
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Remember bear lungs don't extend far behind the front leg like deer lungs do. Actually, the vital zone on a black bear is quite small. If you can get a copy of Craig Boddington's that shows the location of heart, lung, and shoulders of NA big game animals, note how close together those places are on a black bear.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norske View Post
    Remember bear lungs don't extend far behind the front leg like deer lungs do. Actually, the vital zone on a black bear is quite small. If you can get a copy of Craig Boddington's that shows the location of heart, lung, and shoulders of NA big game animals, note how close together those places are on a black bear.
    For a broadside aiming point I always try to follow the outline from the back of its front front leg up and aim approx a third of the way up its body. This normally puts you at a heart shot or close to it.

  11. #11
    Boolit Man
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    Good sound advice, Thanks, The biggest concern was penetration with an exit, haven't ever shot anything large bodied with this bullet & velocity. Lots of deer w-boolits hogs w-J-word. Deer fall well to 200 gr cast 2000 fps, but this bear thing is all new to me, we just started getting some in our neck of the woods. Jim

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    What is your preferred rifle, & load. & what kind of penetration you have gotten in your experiences?

  13. #13
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    I've shot through elk with similar loads, I can't see why it wouldn't go through any bear.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  14. #14
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by versa-06 View Post
    What is your preferred rifle, & load. & what kind of penetration you have gotten in your experiences?
    I’ve shot two with a 300 RUM...way overkill. Complete penetration of course. I had a 2 to 3” exit hole with a full throttle 200 grain nosler partition and I had very, very little blood to follow as it’s fat and hair clogged the huge exit hole. The other bear dropped on the spot using a factory loaded 180 grain swift scirocco (1st generation style that opens quicker and more violent). I also got a complete complete pass through using a 300 FPS crossbow with a Rocky Mountain Gator 100 grain expandable broadhead back in 96’ in Canada. The broad head made a 4” wide slit going in and out like someone stabbed it with a machete. The arrow continued it path and stuck a good 1” into a sapling in back of bear. It was broadside and I shot it right behind the shoulder just above the heart. That bear let out a roar and ran. My arrow had a good amount of blood on it but a ZERO blood trail. My guide and I went looking for it. That bear made it a good 150 yards before expiring. There was a log in his mouth about the size of my arm all chewed up when we found him. Biggest bear I’ve shot. It was 7’6” from nose to its rear foot. The skull was 19 3/16’s of an inch. We never weighed it but my guide guessed over 550’s. It wasn’t fat bear but really long and skinny. My guide told me he must have been a basketball player and not a football player.lol. I still have the skull and rug on my wall.

    Back in 2000’ I ran some guys who had dogs. We harvested 13 bear that year. With mine the biggest at approx 250lbs. I watched them get shot with everything from 12 gauge slugs, 30-30’s, & 30-06’s. Not one caliber impressed me. Every bear shot was recovered but dropped out if the tree and ran like they weren't hit after being shot accept for mine and my buddy’s with the 300 RUM. I did hit it in the shoulder using a 180 grain swift scirocco and probably zipped close to its backbone so it believe I hit the CNS. My buddy shot a little 119 pound field dressed bear on opening day with a 180 grain nosier ballistic tip. I forgot that blood! It looked like a horror movie! Blood was pumping out both size of that bear like quitting garden hoses. It was double lunged. It still tried to get up off the ground after it fell from the tree after being shot and doing death moans so he finished it off with another round. I do remember the hunter using the 12 gauge slug left a halfway decent blood trail...so IMO I’d choose a soft alloy that will expand leaving a huge exit if blood trailing is needed. Your bear will die regardless, but it just depends on hard of a tracking job your going to have with no blood. We had a lot of people get drawn that year...2000’. I believe the DNR overdrew that year. I remember everyone filled there tags but all were small...a given when using dogs. That was my first and last bear dog hunt as I wanted to pick and choose my animal over bait in future hunts.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 11-09-2019 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Spelling

  15. #15
    Boolit Man
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    I'm.on the complete opposite side of the state from you. I'll come and back you up with my .358 loaded with jacketed bullets, but you're loaded well enough already.

    Thanks, Dinny
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    As mentioned above bear are not hard to kill but are hard to put down on the spot and very hard to track;never followed a good blood trail on a bear- I’ve killed them dead on the spot with both 06 and .50 cal front stuffed. Break those front shoulders because as also mentioned above bears vital
    Zone isn’t very large like deer or elk; have fun and remember they are not armor plated!

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    I've been using Tin, 50/50 WW/Pure or WW/Range Scrap w-Quenched, Do ya'll think I should de-temp the nose for more expansion? The meplat on the 254 gr. boolit is much larger. The RCBS 35-200 loads left a pretty good exit on deer even though they weren't de-tempt. Jim

  18. #18
    Boolit Man
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    And 1-more question, Do w-Quenched boolits get softer over long periods of time? I have some older loads that seem to be flattening over time in the tube of my lever guns. Jim

  19. #19
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    They start to soften, depending on the temps they are in, in 8 or 9 years.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I’d go 50/50. The softer the better for boolit expansion leaving a bigger exit hole in hopes of a better blood trail if needed. As said above try and break the shoulder.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check