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Thread: More 357 Magnum Gel Testing J-words vs Cast

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post
    Where can one go to study Veral Smith's work? I would like to know how he did those experiments.
    You could buy his book it is one more good source most of what I referenced was first hand experience. Of course I will admit Veral was an influence but in the end I had to find things out for myself.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy curioushooter's Avatar
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    I've read his book Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets years ago. I do not recall any terminal ballistic stuff in it besides the usual unsubstantiated say-so stuff you read everywhere. Unless you are using a valid test medium you are wasting your time. The fact that he doesn't offer Hollowpoint molds in handgun calibers speaks volumes to me.

  3. #23
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    You can read it in his book in the latter chapters or in the Beartooth Bullet guide which I believe is now out of print as the owner of that site retired. Both involved damage hunting deer in fields and pictures of bullet tracks and internal damage. The fact that Veral doesn't offer a HP mold speaks volumes to me as well, he believes in what he offers.
    IIRC, the controlled harvest was 125-150 per year on the damage hunts.
    Last edited by MT Gianni; 01-20-2020 at 05:55 PM.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post
    I've read his book Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets years ago. I do not recall any terminal ballistic stuff in it besides the usual unsubstantiated say-so stuff you read everywhere. Unless you are using a valid test medium you are wasting your time. The fact that he doesn't offer Hollowpoint molds in handgun calibers speaks volumes to me.
    This is funny so many who subscribe to WFN lethality in harvesting game will disagree with this assertion. It’s funny you think ballistic gel testing somehow is more authoritative than real life accounts on game. I for one think you are wrong about two things one you need a hollow point for handguns. Two-you take ballistic gel controlled testing over real life evaluation of performance based on game harvested. I can tell you I have taken no less than 50 head of game with WFN/LFN cast boolits up to and including Elk and the results mirror the assertion in his book and conversations with Veral.

    To each his own but it’s funny.....

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    I like to have an idea how my boolit will perform before I fire it at game.

    Gel is repeatable, and you can shoot it any time of the year you want. Here in ky, one has 2 weeks to test boolits on deer.
    Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwlongshot View Post
    Have you ever tried a 140 FTX in these tests?

    Im finding myself “stuck” using it as it simply shoots lights out for me. Thing is its going 2350 fps, and I fear it a bomb.

    CW
    My one shot at the biggest whitetail buck I have ever seen was made at 35 feet, with the buck broadsides to me and he even stopped to look at me! My Marlin 1894C was loaded with 140 FTX's and sighted in for that round. At the shot, he staggered for 2 paces and then took off like a shot! I put one more round at him at about 40yds and watched him disappear! Called my hunting companions on the radio and began the 1/2 hour wait, convinced he was mortally hit! When the first of my buddies arrived we checked out where the buck was standing on the shot and found an impressive blood spatter. Tracking the buck put him up several times and the blood trail was easy to follow but he was not staying down! We tracked him for 6 km, before giving up due to loosing daylight, but resumed the search the next morning but found no buck! I still wake up nights deeply troubled at loosing that fine animal! That rifle is very accurate and I am an experienced hunter and I am convinced the bullet failed and blew up on the rib cage! Checking the Hornady manual, that bullet is designed for people, not large game! My mistake! My previous Bambi rifle was a 6.5 Swedish firing 140 gn jacketed bullets and the last 9 shots with it got me 9 white tails over the years! I have since discovered the Venerable 45/70 Gov't and have developed a high respect for its 300-405 gn cast projectiles and am anxiously awaiting the next deer season (11 months away)!

  7. #27
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    I’m not so sure a bullet knows the difference between what it’s shot at. But That’s my exact worry. Being so close vel High. Much blood, I agree bullet blow up. Terrible thing. Apologies.

    The bullet is a rifle bullet designed for the 357 as a hunting round as described to me by speaking with Hornady directly. We shot it at 2200 into wet news papers and it was impressive with 6-8” penetration and about 60% retention. But still I’m conserned gonna try on coyotes. We usually have a couple by now. But weather every weekend this year so far limits hunting time. Breeding season approaches quick for coyotes. Make em easier to call. Hope to try it out.

    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  8. #28
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    I have respect for Hornaday's product but every time I see FTX, I think failure to expand. No basis that is just what jumps to mind.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  9. #29
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    That’s odd and completely opposite what I experience myself.

    I find every FTX I have shot to expand EASIER AND FASTER than advertised or expected.

    The 30/30-160, the 35-200, the 45-200, the 45-225 the 45-250. That’s multiple animals
    For most all those listed sans the 200 45 which BLEW UP @ 1600 fps on a coyote. SOFTBALL SIZED EXIT AND GOLF BALL ENTRANCE. That coyote wasn’t 5” across the chest on the broadside shot I took. One doe shot with the 30/30 had a base ball entrance and depth hole in her side. She was DRT must have sent shards deeper. A bloody mess. 3/4 deer with my 450 and a 250 FTX shows shrapnel exits on shoulder shots. No solid chunk exits.

    99% of my shots are inside 100. 95% of those inside 50!

    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  10. #30
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    I like the 357. I was assured for years it was just border line for deer, so I never really was amused and stayed with the .44.
    Started casting, 357 TC was at hand. I have found the 35’s easy to work with, it either flies or it doesn’t. There are some “favorite pet” bullets and loads I have tried and tried with no luck.

    Went with one of the early group buys years ago with a 35 mold designed to work in a lever gun or wheel gun. Weighs 180ish with my alloy. The harder I push it the better it grouped.
    GP100 6” and Marlin carbine are fed the same diet. Both have taken mature whitetails with no problem. Complete pass through at every angle I have tried to retrieve a bullet.

    The WFN I believe has a lot of hydraulic shock working for it from organ damage I have seen. Hit and bone and it sprays bone shards like crazy. I have had lungs to mush and bruised the heart up real bad.
    Bad on me deflected by brush shot, blew a hole through the brisket and off side front shoulder, rib bones totally shredded the heart,DRT. For just really nicking a critter, it dropped as quack as any I ever saw.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check