Need some reloading help for a Martini Cadet in .32-20?

[marlinman93]

Breech seating in a Martini type action isn't as easy as many other single shots.

[Drm50]

I bought a Cadet locally a few years ago. Very nice shape guy had bought it at a show. He thought he was going to shoot factory 32/20 and found out it wouldn't hit jack. When I bought it I got a zip lock with close to 100 1x
32/20 brass that had been fired in Cadet. Several had cracked necks from fire forming to chamber. Brass was Remington. Bore was in good shape. I loaded a few with 323 bullets as cast. Used soft mix of pure lead with about 10% of tin. It shot decent but didn't do much with it before I rebarreled to 218 bee.

[flintlocke]

I bought a non-collectible Westley-Richards Cadet a few years ago, of course it wouldn't keep 'em on the paper at 25 yards. So I slugged the barrel, .321" and cast the chamber (mandatory, huge chamber length differences). Yes the rcbs heeled bullet probably would have worked, but I was horrified at the price for a one purpose mold. So I modified the chamber to accept .32-20/8mm. The mold is a 125 gr wheelweight from Accurate Molds dropping ww's at .323. Superb accuracy with 1500 fps loads of Bullseye or Red Dot. And I can use the mold for two other rifles.

[Baltimoreed]

flintlocke, tell me more about your mould and could i possibly buy some bullets to try from you? Your solution seems the most logical to me. If my chamber is big enough for fireformed 32-20 brass and a real non heeled bullet why mess with the heeled ones and work the brass to an early death. Still waiting for my 170 gr .322 lead bullets from MidwayUSA. I plan on making a jig and use my HF mini mill to mill 1/4 inch +/— off the bottoms to make them lighter [125-150]. I’m thinking that I will cut down a cheap lee .32-40 die set to seat/crimp with if necessary. The case neck thickness is similar between the .32-20 and .32-40 while the case neck looks thicker on the .32 Special per the dimensional diagrams. I will experiment with using my 30 carbine sizer die as someone suggested if needed. Have some R&D as soon as the brown truck arrives.

[NoZombies]

Right. I've never even heard of an American ".32" pistol cartridge that was a full .32. They're all just oversize .30 calibers. Marketing over substance, I guess.

The S&W 32-44 used bullets in the .321" range.

[Baltimoreed]

Attachment 249857
Here’s what my loads look like.
The brown truck finally arrived with my boolits. Wrecked a couple of pieces of brass before I realized I was using the 32-20 seater die. Duh. After that I figured that out I started using a junk 38 spcl seater to seat the 170 gr boolits fine. I am having to lightly resize the loaded rds to get them to go all the way into my chamber. My first 10 made a 6 in group at 30 yds with no keyholes. I’m using my 30 carbine die as a case sizer die, seems to work. I use an old military 8mm loaded round to bell the case mouth, just push the bullet into the mty case and work it around. I know 170 is a little heavy for a 1-20 twist, I’m going to play with these for a while and vary the powder and amounts to see if I can get the groups to shrink. I’ve got some 150 gr .321 ordered but no telling when they will show up. I might try to mill a little lead off the bottom of the boolits. Another idea could be to use a .321 lubriser die to swage down my bullets from the .323 that they measure to. A couple of thousands might be just enough.

[Baltimoreed]

Attachment 249863
Here are my cut down 170 gr boolits. I cut the bottom off at the lower grease groove with my band saw and then used my mill to make the bullets uniform. They weigh about 130 gr. Got errands now but I’ll try them out this afternoon.

[Rapidrob]

I've been shooting my Cadets rifle for 57 years now. The bores are .323 not Britt .312 or the like. There are several bullet mold makers out there that make the proper shape ( heeled) bullet and even offer a 10 grain heavier than normal bullet.
with the proper bullet diameter and shape the bullet will obdurate properly and is very accurate out to 300 meters.
I have won our clubs off-hand matches shooting my Cadets and they are a joy to shoot with the fastest lock-time of any rifle made for a military/school.

[barrabruce]

What’s the purpose of the knurling on the case mouth?

I came second in the rook and rabbit rifle section in the regional zone big game shoot this year with my cadet.

It’s nothing to do with the rifles ability to shoot.
Just the loose nut on butt.

Got beat by some wipper snapper with good eyes and steady nerves.
Ha

[Baltimoreed]

Crimp in the heel based bullet if you were carrying them in bullet loops maybe?

I shot an indoor range action pistol match last night and those Camp Lejeune Marines kicked my butt. I shot 2 of the 3 stages clean but took too long to do it. A day or an evening at the range is always good.

Shot my cut down boolits and the group shrunk down to 2-3 inches. I’ll chop up some more today and see if I can work up a load.

[Rapidrob]

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...p?f=16&p=23294
9 grains IMR-4227 under the 130 grain bullet has shot the best hands down. It is not a max load,but there is no leading,is very accurate and case life is outstanding.
Many of the loads are hotter but you will get cracked cases after about four reloads.

[Baltimoreed]

Attachment 249891
Progress....first target was 170 gr and 4gr Bullseye...second was too much Red Dot and 130?gr....third target is 130?gr and 4gr Bullseye, 10 rds!. High left was a clean bore flier, aim point was 6;0clock on the red dot, 30 yds off my rest. Might be on the right track. I need to get some more boolits built.

[barrabruce]

Humour me and try 3 grns of bulleye.
With 1.6grns of bulleye and a 130 grn bullet mine turns into a very mild mannered rifle shooting bug holes at 50 yards.
Cci quiet load.

[marlinman93]

Humour me and try 3 grns of bulleye.
With 1.6grns of bulleye and a 130 grn bullet mine turns into a very mild mannered rifle shooting bug holes at 50 yards.
Cci quiet load.

That's a nice load for fun shooting.

[Baltimoreed]

Here are 20 more rds, the top 10 group/flier are my 130 gr .323 cut down 170s and the lower group are the 150gr .321 rnfp that came from Western Bullet Co. All were loaded with 3.0 gr of Bullseye. I put a dab of whiteout on the front sight which helped out a lot.

[Rapidrob]

I use a cannelure tool to crimp the heeled bullet into the case. It works but is not really needed.
I'm making a stab-crimp tool that will dupe the original loads.

[barrabruce]

I made a Lee loader out of a 30 something cal one for mine but I still want to open up the heel on my mold to slide fit into fired cases.
Requiring no manipulation of the brass.

Baltimoreed
Most 310’s bullets are 0.680" max some a bit shorter.
If they are too long they won’t stabilise in the 1:20 twist.
Seems like it wants to shoot for you.
50 yard groups of an inch is considered quite good off a bench.
We all play with other bullets till you realise how good it will shoot with a proper bullet for your gun.
Soon when you are hooked with that nice trigger and quick ignition and how it feels in the hand you will say stuff it I want custom mold.

[flintlocke]

Baltimoreed, I am guilty of type first, fact check later. So, the 1500 fps quoted was for a 2400 load just for velocity, it was around 3" at 100 yards. Everyday load was 3.5 Red Dot with the Accurate #322125L which drops straight wheelweight at .323" at 973 fps (very low s.d.'s). My rifle was stored on the bottom of the English Channel for many years before I got it and so I did not feel bad about modifying the chamber. In order to utilize the 322125L bullet and Winchester .32-20 brass, I cut the rim counterbore to .065" on the lathe (so I didn't have to thin the rims of the brass) and then very gingerly reamed the chamber to accept the assembled round. I was fortunate to find a .348 spiral chucking reamer on ebay to do this. (by the way, an 11/32 twist drill is awfully close) I did not grind a pilot on the reamer, a real machinist would abhor my methods but it worked. Case lengths are all over the map in the .310 I guess, but I went with 1.320 to accommodate the full length .32-20. Of course I did end up with a fairly abrupt throat but I very carefully tapered the throat with a boring bar and then a little emery, 300 or so rounds later, no lead buildup.
I'd be happy to send you some bullets, not sure how to exchange information, I'm computer challenged to an extreme degree. Paul

[Baltimoreed]

Paul, just click on flintlocke and open the message I’ve sent. Thanks, Ed

[flintlocke]

Baltimoreed, I tried attacking my inbox from about 3 different directions and it all comes up: "0 messages".
Throwing security to the winds, just send me an email to phalvorseth@aol.com with your mailing address and I will ship you some boolits poste-haste. Unfortunately they are lubed with Lee liquid alox but it will come right off with a little mineral spirits, so you can apply your lube of choice. Paul