Need some reloading help for a Martini Cadet in .32-20?

[Baltimoreed]

I picked up this nice .310/.32-20 Martini Cadet recently and started trying to work up a load but am having problems. First, my new .32-20 brass chambers perfectly. I used 4 gr of Bullseye and 100 gr .314 dia bullet to fire form the cases. There was no accuracy. The case mouth opened up to .320 and the case shoulder was gone. I’m wondering if the PO ran a .32-40 reamer into the chamber to eliminate the need for heel base bullets. I’ve got some bigger dia bullets ordered so tomorrow I’m going to beagle a .311413 mould and see what happens, it throws about .313 now.
Attachment 249583Attachment 249584

[curator]

Baltimoreed; Most of these Cadets had a .32-20 reamer inserted into the breech so that commercial ammo could be used. However, the .310 Greener Cadet has a .320-.322 groove diameter that will not shoot .312-.314" diameter bullets very accurately. The key to getting the .32-20 Cadet to shoot well is using the original .310/.322. 120 grain heeled bullet. RCBS can supply the mold, but better yet is CBE out of Australia who has several designs made specifically for the Cadet. I have one of these "converted" rifles and get excellent accuracy using 120 Grain bullets cast from air cooled wheel weight alloy and lubed with Lee Liquid Alox. I load 4.8 grains of Unique and thumb seat the bullets in unsized cases. No need to crimp or resize fired brass. Simply de-cap, reprime, load powder, bullet and shoot. Lots of good Cadet info in the British Militaria website: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/brit...ifle-forum-f3/

[uscra112]

Accurate made me a 125 grain mold that drops .323 in 20:1 alloy. I use it for a peculiar .32-40 I have that is too weak for normal .32-40 loads. I could even use it for the .32 Ideal, but I haven't yet. Mould is marked .32-125L. It's basically just an oversized Lyman # 3118.

[Outpost75]

I had a BSA Cadet Martini which had been recut with the front of a .32-40 reamer to use .32-20 brass blown out straight. Accuracy was very good with the RCBS 32-120 Cadet heeled bullet cast 1:30 tin-lead with a case full of IMR4198. I've since had the rifle rebarreled to .38 Special, which was more practical for me.

[barrabruce]

Just do it easy way and do a chamber cast to see what you actually are playing with.
From then on it’s finding a mould that will fit.

Just my view for what it’s worth.

All the other posts are good advice.

For every expert I have listen too they all sprout the same mis information.
Some swear they’re bore are 316 thou but they measure a 5 land groove with a mic and forgot you need two lands.

They can vary quite a bit in barrell dimensions and chamber depth and form.
Who knows what previous wise people have done to it before you.

I do know they shoot well with a decent barrell and bullet fit.
They don’t give much up in accuracy for a 100 yr old rifle compared to modern guns.

[uscra112]

I had a BSA Cadet Martini which had been recut with the front of a .32-40 reamer to use .32-20 brass blown out straight. Accuracy was very good with the RCBS 32-120 Cadet heeled bullet cast 1:30 tin-lead with a case full of IMR4198. I've since had the rifle rebarreled to .38 Special, which was more practical for me.

Now that interests me greatly. That rifle I just mentioned is a fine Stevens Model 108, (the rare precursor to the Model 44 for them as doesn't know), which was very recently and very unwisely rebarrelled to .32-40. I'd been thinking to shorten it to approximate the .32-30 Remington, using shortened .32-40 brass, but by going a bit further I can duplicate what you had, thus avoiding cutting up .32-40 brass which is usually unobtainium.

[uscra112]

Just do it easy way and do a chamber cast to see what you actually are playing with.
From then on it finding a mould that will fit.

Just my view for what it’s worth.

All the other posts are good advice.

In this instance, his blown-out brass is as good as a chamber cast, isn't it?

[barrabruce]

Just missed the reply’s.
"Isn’t his formed brass as good as a chamber cast?"
No I don’t think it is.
Well you can measure and see what it all looks like and what you are playing with.
Where the chamber ends and the free bore /throat if it has anything.

[cwlongshot]

I agree dont do anything to you do or have a proper chamber cast done.

It will tell
You everything ypu need to know in one step.

Dont spend good $$ needlessly.

CW

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I had a rifle that was identical in appearance to yours converted to .32-20. I shot an entire box of 50 rounds of Remington .32-20 through it and never hit a thing. Set it aside for perhaps 15 years, and then happened to read a letter in the American Rifleman where a fellow with the same problem learned that the .310 bore was actually just about a true .32 caliber. He started loading .32 cal. wadcutters in the fired brass and found that the rifle became very accurate. I tried it, and found that I didn't even need a sizing die. I would just re-prime the case, load the powder, insert the wadcutter into the case mouth, invert the cartridge and press it down on a table top until the bullet was flush with the case mouth. It worked exactly like the fellow that wrote the letter claimed, and my rifle became very accurate; so much so that it was a bit boring without much noise and recoil, so I sold it. Big, big mistake! I still have about half a box of the wadcutters, which were cast for .32 revolvers. I've used some of them for slugging smaller diameter bores.

DG

[Baltimoreed]

Attachment 249594Tonight I will tear it down and make a chamber cast. I’ve got some of the casting stuff in my shop. Saw it the other day.
Curator, i went to the British Military forum that you directed. Thanks. Looked around some but I think they are more into the collecting side of military antiques where Cast Boolits is all about putting lead downrange. I’m sure that I will join and visit some more. I dig on Webleys personally, but this is my second Cadet.

[uscra112]

@ DG - Hollow-base wadcutters? And were they .312 OD or .321?

[JMtoolman]

The one I have shoots a .324 diameter heeled bullet. Shoots real well, shot a small mule deer buck a number of years ago just to see if I could. Smacked him down really fast. Hauled him home on a motorcycle! Never tried it again, thought it was a bit marginal. the toolman.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

@ DG - Hollow-base wadcutters? And were they .312 OD or .321?

My first thought was that they were .321, but it kept nagging me, so I went out to the shop and found them:
I mic'd several of them-- they are right around .313.

[Green Frog]

In the ranks of the American Single Shot Rifle Association there are folks who seem to be getting good results shooting a true 32 caliber version of the 32-20. Most of them are using custom, faster twist barrels so they can use heavier bullets, but if I were dealing with your situation, I’d look for a relatively short, light bullet in the .319-.321 range and give that a go. You could neck size and seat with a set of 32 Winchester Special dies (not 32 WCF!)

Froggie

[Baltimoreed]

Attachment 249690Attachment 249691Here’s my cerrosafe chamber cast. My cadet has a big chamber. The only detail the cast shows is whats left of the 32-20 shoulder. The dummy is a fire formed case with a .320 bullet that I pulled from an old 32-40 round I found in my junk cartridge box. I chambered my dummy and then pushed a patch into the muzzle until it stopped and then removed the dummy and made my cast.

[uscra112]

My first thought was that they were .321, but it kept nagging me, so I went out to the shop and found them:
I mic'd several of them-- they are right around .313.

Right. I've never even heard of an American ".32" pistol cartridge that was a full .32. They're all just oversize .30 calibers. Marketing over substance, I guess.

[marlinman93]

Over the years a great many Martini Cadets have been rechambered to .32-20 and messed with enough to make them inaccurate. I think yours has possibility to shoot, but I don't think you will ever get there using .32-20 dies to reload since they'll overwork the brass, and size it down too small for the chamber and bullet.
I'd fire form all the brass to fit using cornmeal and a wax plug. Then once it's all fire formed you can have a .32-20 seating die opened up to the diameter you need for your .325 bore and seat bullets sized for your bore. Might take someone like Tom at Accurate molds to make a light bullet mold in the correct diameter to get it shooting well for you.

[john.k]

If a British gun says .310 on the barrel,its .310....bore......all cadets are .310 bore,they would be rejected at inspection if any larger......the variation come in the groove dia.......the early Greeners had 003 deep grooves,hence they are 316 groove.........the later delivery BSA s used a .005 to .0055 deep grove,therefore they are .320-.321 groove......very simple arithmetic,I would have thought.....Every 32-20 Cadet Ive ever seen simply had the rim groove relieved a bit......if necessary.....many Greeners take 32-20 cases without any alteration,when fired the cases come out cylindrical......only a dummy would resize them back .

[barrabruce]

Now if you have a boo lit with a heel that will thumb seat in the fired neck of your case and 0.324-325" and about 0.680" long you should be sweet.
Only need a de-reprime a case and add a pinch of powder.
310 RCBS mold maybe?
Depends on inside neck diameter.

Breach seat 8mm bullets?