Should I dual purpose a 444 Marlin

[BamaNapper]

Here's my predicament. I have a Marlin 444S in the house, circa 1977, but I don't really need a 444. I already cast, load and shoot a fair amount of 44 mag, but not the 444. As deer season approaches I'm wanting a 44 mag lever. I took the 444 to the LGS this afternoon to ask about trading in and was surprised at the cost to make it happen. It's far cheaper to buy 100 brass and set up to load them.

My question is whether it's realistic to start reloading the 444 and try to find a recipe that would put the 444 in the area of the 44 mag. I would probably try and stay with maybe a 250 grain bullet running somewhere near 1400-1500 FPS.

I can see some of the downside of going this route. The rifle is heavier than a 44 lever would be, and a little longer overall. But this gives me a 444 should I ever move back to country with larger game. (Deer in southern AL tend to run in the 125-150 lb class) And it's an awfully large case to try to load light.

I'm surely not the first one to have this thought. Any insight? Any preferred powders for such a load? Yes, I already considered the two rifle solution.

[Mica_Hiebert]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-reduced-loads

[gwpercle]

Keep the 444 Marlin .
Load for it ...load them mild or load them heavy that's what reloading & boolits are all about .
Cast boolits in the 444 Marlin are a good match .
Dies and brass would be the best way to go in my mind .
Gary

[longbow]

Can't offer direct hands on experience but the 444 can be downloaded and the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has several relatively light cast boolit loads for it.

I used to have (and wish I still did) a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 which is an even bigger case but I loaded it up and down from light collar button boolits to 405 gr. From plinker loads to thumper loads! No problem.

Using correct powder and load data you should have no trouble loading light if you want. That option also gives you the ability to load far beyond the .44 mag. too should the need or desire come up.

In fact there are a few relatively light loads listed here for cast boolits:

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/re...et-data-lookup

type in 444.

And here:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Longbow

[GhostHawk]

I have A .444marlin in a single shot handi rifle. I started at 13 grains of Red Dot which was was ok. But after 10-12 shors I could feel a flinch coming on and quit. So I did some research for .44mag loads using lighter cast, 200 and 220 gr, 6.5 grains of Red Dot. Well I could shoot those all day long.
And they were just as accurate as the higher powered loads, just a bit more rainbow.

Since then I have acquired a pair of .44mag handi rifles. I shoot the same load in them.

It is your gun, your time, your money, your choice. But you might try loading some light loads in .444 brass.

And once reloading, the choice is yours, mild to wild, the .444 will do it all.

Granted .444 brass is not cheap, but swapping guns is not cheap either.

Generally speaking any moderate .44 mag load/powder/bullet combo should shoot well in the .444marlin. You have more case volume, so less pressure. Some powders will of course work better than others.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd keep it.

Load from mild to wild depending on what you'll be shooting at.

[gumbo333]

Think you could sell the 444 for $$$ if you really wanted a 44 mag lever. I think 444's are in demand. #3 son has a Henry 44 mag. a very nice and accurate lever rifle. Another spot for low power 444 data is: gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata. Very interesting site. Good luck.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I would keep the 444. I have a set of LEE Dies (3 die set) and a LEE Factory crimp die for the 444, though it is just nice not necessary. I have had decent accuracy with a 250 gr SWC (.429) and 17 grains Unique for a friendly pleasant load. I get 3" groups at 100 yrds. I have not done a lot of looking for lighter loads. I think a .430 or .431 might be better. A 200-240 grain Round Flatnose like the Cowboy Shooter's would also work well for most deer, I would start with 15 gr 4227 or maybe 18 gr 5744. For full power, I have used H322 under a RanchDog 265 gr GC or a 265 gr Leadheads GC and the 265 Hornady and 300 gr Speer. Full power cast accuracy is 1.5-2 MOA with jacketed a little better. My rifle is a Microgroove, a 444S, pistol grip, no safety, 22" barrel. I think you should have little trouble working up lighter loads that meet your needs. I have found accuracy seems easy in the 444 compared to a Marlin 1894 44 Mag and a Winchester 94 44 Mag. Bullet weight and power charge determine the level of recoil/power you get.

[Petander]

Thou Shalt Not Sell A Marlin Lever Gun.

[BamaNapper]

It looks like a unanimous verdict. The 444 stays. I thought the 44 option would have had some takers. But y'all are right, the almost unlimited range of options for the 444 does make it a logical choice. I have some Unique and a bottle of Trail Boss sitting around to start with. Time to order a set of dies and some brass.

I have not shot this rifle for probably 25 years. It used to tear my shoulder up and I passed it to my brother. He just recently returned it and the memories of getting beat up had me wanting to replace it.

You can't beat the knowledge and experience of y'all. I'll post my thoughts after I try some lighter loads. By the way, the loads mentioned all seem to be pistol powders. Is there a reason they are preferred over rifle powders?

[GhostHawk]

A not as position sensitive in light loads. IE 6.5 grains of Red Dot, and you don't need a filler. Drop below starting loads on slow rifle powder ie 4895 and you will.

B Thrifty, you can do essentially the same thing with 1/4 to 1/5 the amount of powder. Load 5 rounds vs one. A ;pound of Red Dot at 6.5 grains per load will load you over a thousand rounds. With slow rifle powders your looking at 140 rounds @ 50 grains per load.

C The old adage is " Go fast to go slow, go slow to go fast." Fast being pistol powders, slow being dedicated slower burning rifle powders.

With the .444 you don't need fast to be deadly. Just need to throw a big chunk of lead out there and let momentum work.

Personally I found that accuracy was easier to find with a few grains of Red Dot. You are not pushing the load hard, you can use softer alloys, And a little time on ladder tests will show you a number of accuracy nodes for a given caliber/gun.

Also you don't need a super good lube. Since I switched to shooting Red Dot pretty much exclusively I lube everything with 2 or 3 very light coats of BLL. Cast em, coat em, dry em, load em all in the same hour. For me that works. No equipment needed other than a plastic container with lid, a small household fan, and a cardboard flat to dry them on.

[Cast_outlaw]

I believe that the fast pistol powders hit closer to operating pressure levels and burn cleaner as a result and are less position sensitive for ingnition in a large case reducing the risk of a hang fire or SEE

[Gtek]

"Thou Shalt Not Sell A Marlin Lever Gun" Amen! The wonderful thing about big straight wall cases is the ability and the many options to go from mild to wild. Having an S at the end means a slow twist, light boolits will be your friend and as usual fit is important.

[MrWolf]

Thou Shalt Not Sell A Marlin Lever Gun.

This. Unless it is to me

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Both Starline and Hornady make 444 brass. Starline.com, MidwayUSA, Grafs, others have brass. Enjoy, don't let the 444 beat you up, you are control of what it eats.

[trapper9260]

It looks like a unanimous verdict. The 444 stays. I thought the 44 option would have had some takers. But y'all are right, the almost unlimited range of options for the 444 does make it a logical choice. I have some Unique and a bottle of Trail Boss sitting around to start with. Time to order a set of dies and some brass.

I have not shot this rifle for probably 25 years. It used to tear my shoulder up and I passed it to my brother. He just recently returned it and the memories of getting beat up had me wanting to replace it.

You can't beat the knowledge and experience of y'all. I'll post my thoughts after I try some lighter loads. By the way, the loads mentioned all seem to be pistol powders. Is there a reason they are preferred over rifle powders?

If the rifle is hard on your shoulder. Do what I did with the ones that done that to me. I had my gunsmith put a recoil pad on it that will take care of the problem .also for what is stated for reduced loads. I have 3 guns that was beat my shoulder up and then had the gunsmith put the pads and now I can shoot them with out that problem any more.

[444ttd]

i have a tc encore with a 23" MGM barrel in 444 marlin. i hunt deer/black bear close up(100yards and under) with it. i use a 300gr fn gc(saeco) with 24.0gr of dacron/1.1gr of dacron that goes 1624fps. it is a sweet shooter and the recoil is nil to none. i use dacron because it shoots accurately(3/4 - 1" at 100 yards), no dacron it shoots well but it can be better(2" + at 100 yards). i used 16.0gr of 2400 and i went to 25.5gr of 2400. i don't have a pressure gauge but 25.5gr doesn't show the over pressure(brass doesn't stretch as much, .002 to .003". primers aren't cratered or backed out).

my 444 can go to mild(trail boss/unique) to wild(rel7/h4198). i find that mild does the trick to kill close cover deer/bear with. i use 10 lead and around 3/4 - 1 tin. i have only killed 3 deer with the 300gr, at 50+ yards buck went about 25-30 yards after the shot, 20-30 yards the doe(s) fell where they stood. the boolits went in and out(all behind the shoulder) so there is none to compare. just a nice clean exit wound(about 1"). i used a 275gr ranch dog, 280gr lfn and wfn gc that went around 2200-2300fps. the deer didn't like it, heck i don't like it. they created a maximum exit wound(3"+). didn't matter if it was behind the shoulder or shoulder shot, they did a maximum exit wound! i mean i was throwing shoulders and ribs away.

i haven't shot a 44 mag rifle, but i do have a ruger sbh in 44 mag. it shoots a 280gr wfn with 10.0gr of unique and a 44spl with a 250gr penta hp/7.5gr of unique.

[nhithaca]

"Having an S at the end means a slow twist, light boolits will be your friend and as usual fit is important"
Not sure where this info is coming from but all the 444 guns until the '90s used the slow twist regardless of the model designation. Some time before Remington took over, Marlin changed to a 1 turn in 20" like they have always used on the 1895's (new 336 based guns, not the original long frame 1895s). Correctly loaded hand loads will work fine in the slow twist barrels, even 300 grain bullets.

[pietro]

.

I once used a .444 handloaded with 265gr Hornady J-word boolits that were very effective on New England whitetails.

IME, heavier boolits can be loaded to have the knock-down power needed w/o beating up the shooter's shoulder - but, I agree with the others here that a good recoil pad is called for, even if it means shortening the buttstock for the correct length-of-pull.

Also IME, a 240gr boolit meant for a .44 mag doesn't have the internal strength to avoid terminal failure @ .444 load levels unless cat-sneeze loads for it are devised.



.

[bikerbeans]

S = sport. Suffix added in 1971 when marlin came out with a 22" barrel 444.

BB