Search for more precision in a mauser 7.65

[nueces5]

Nueces,

This subject has been discussed and tested in depth within this group of members since before this forum existed.

The concensus, borne out by being tested by many members over the years is that one should think about the percentage variation within a group rather than one or two points of measurable difference.

There seems to be very little difference in accuracy between zero variance in weight and about 5 percent. Many have reported little difference up to 10 percent. One, two, three grains will make no difference in a .458 bullet, but apply it to a .226 cast bullet and the percentage goes way up. 15 grains might enlarge the group a bit in a .357, but go ahead, try to get anything less than a shotgun pattern in a .223.

This is not to say that I am against grouping my bullets weight like you did. When you cast, if you're really in the rhythm, with a big enough sample size, you will find that your castings will fall very close to 2 specific weights, with a few outliers in each direction.

I don't have enough experience with PC to know how much it throws the variance off.

With .22 castings, after rigorous visual culling, I weight separate by .2 grains and then load up ammunition boxes by groupings. With .45 rifle castings, I don't bother at all unless I'm really trying to shoot groups. Then, most usually, if the weight is off by more than 2,3,4 grains or so, it's radically off because of a void or a missed surface defect due to culling them with my glasses off.

Keep weight sorting, it helps eliminate another variable in the equation from being the or one of the culprits. As has been said, how perfect the base of the bullet is, is FAR more important than gross weight variation.

I am also curious why you re pc'ing them twice. Isnt that unnecessary?

I do pc twice because I have not been satisfied with the thickness. I think the powder paint I use is not in a thick layer. If I add a lot of powder paint, it simply melts on the baking sheet.
Now with the weight and controlled diameter, I will strive to achieve a flat base as perfect as possible.
I make a PC with the boolits standing inside the oven. I will try to take some pictures where I can see how they look.

"There seems to be very little difference in accuracy between zero variance in weight and about 5 percent."

This is correct with most rifles, especially milsurp rifles being shot with issue sights at 50 - 100 yards/meters. However, with really accurate rifles (includes milsurp rifles in excellent condition set up with a scope/match sights for match level competition) proper weight sorting can make a difference at 100 yards and especially at longer ranges. Additionally Proper weight sorting is also quite beneficial for HV shooting at 100+ ranges using rifles that are very accurate to begin with.

However, I don't think weight sorting will prove of much value if the bullets are PC'd. I just don't see PC'd bullets being competitive where accuracy is the concern such as in CBA matches. In other types of matches such as SASS competitions where targets are close and big PC'd bullets seem to be holding their own.

I'm just trying to shoot my milsurp rifle at a long distance.
I will try without a pc. With GC and lubricated with simple lube.

[Kegcaissy]

Got my 1909 peruvian mauser (7,65) at the range today, i was trying NOE 316299 on a 6''X9'' steel plate. With Alox and home made aluminium checks from the pat marlins tool, i got 3/5 at 200Y with open sights!! 16gr of 2400 is the ticket. This bullet also seems to be a good part the solution in this caliber, my barrel slugs at 0.305''x0.311''. More tuning will be done for the powder charge if the groups are not that good next time on paper at 100Y.

[leadhead]

What are you sizing the 316299 bullets to?
Denny

[Uncle Grinch]

Ben's Liquid Lube is nothing more then equal parts Lee Liquid lube, Mineral Spirts
and Lundmark Liquid Paste Wax. Mixed together. Put your bullets in a plastic container
with lid. Two or three drops of lube on the bullets and swish them around till coated.
Then spread them out on wax paper to dry. I use three thin coats and never get any
leading. Used to be a posting on here about Ben's Liquid Lube but I see that it's been
deleted.

Not quite equal parts....... In Sept. of 1016, it appears Ben updated it to: 30% LLA or Xlox /30% Lundmark Liquid Wax /40% Mineral spirits (or naptha). Pour together & shake, no heating required.

[Rich/WIS]

One to two MOA is excellent accuracy for MILSURP rifles, none of which were built for MOA accuracy. With original sights doubt if many of us can hold MOA, and even with a good scope would find it a challenge. If you and your rifle can do that then you should feel blessed.

[sundog]

I've been shooting military bolt matches since '98. I've seen and scored many hundreds of 10-shot, 100 yard, SR-21 targets shot with all manner of 'as issued' military bolt rifles (WWII vintage and earlier).

This year's state shoot off (annual event here in 'The Nations') saw small group winner of 1.5XX, and the same shooter posted a winning aggregate of 300/300 with X count in the mid teens. This young man has very good eye sight and has had some very good coaching. Obviously.

My take is that most of the decent milsurp rifles on any given day are good for about 3 MOA, and if the shooter has excellent eye sight and good bench technique it can squeeze under 2 MOA.

With respect to this match, the bulk of better rifles seem to be 03A3, M96, and some Nagants. Surplus ammo is a crap shoot. Time spent doing a little load development helps immensely.

Over the last year I have been shooting weight sorted RCBS 30-180-SP, PC's with Smokes clear, over carefully selected and prepped LCNM brass (soon to be replaced as it's nearing end of life with 30+ loadings) at roughly 1750-1800 fps. Even with my bad eyes (going through cataract/lens replacement surgery on both eyes this month) I posted a 297/300 and Xs at the September match. One of my score targets was a 100/100-0X. Yup, shot an almost perfect circle around the X-ring with nary a one touching. It makes a difference!

About weight sorting. It's a pain in the bazoo, but it will find boolits with hidden oclussions (weigh light). If they are off center you'll likely see a flyer. Btw, it is not possible to 'call a flyer'.

About PC. All I can say here is it make things easier to keep groups consistently tighter.

My CMP 03A3 can consistently post 2.5" groups and 98/100 score targets only IF I LET IT. That means days that I have my 'stuff' together. It has over 6K cast through it now and shoots better than when I first got it. It shoots better than I can. What I'm saying is that if you have a half way decent milsurp, some half way decent ammo, IT'S ALL ON THE SHOOTER.

So, this is some of what I know about it in my world. I have more fun than anyone else when we meet for a match. Great bunch of people to be with!

Now for kind of a pet peeve ---- these guys who brag about the itty bitty groups they shoot 'all day long' and you politely invite them out to participate and they refuse to show up.