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Thread: Search for more precision in a mauser 7.65

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy nueces5's Avatar
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    Search for more precision in a mauser 7.65

    Today I was classifying my boolits by weight.
    I made groups of 0.3 grains.
    Do you think it's a good division?
    I think I don't have 2 boolits that weigh the same
    I have an RCBS 10/10 scale
    https://aussiehunter.org/wp-content/...arm-scales.jpg
    I think it is quite reliable.

    I do double PCs and then I weigh them.
    I use Argentine powder, similar to 3031, with which I shot at 1800 FPS not GC
    Do you think a good 0.3 grains for precision? I was trying to make some scratches with a file in the base to match the weight.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I don't know how things are with buying reloading supplies. But if you can find a bullet mold that will cast at least .002 over your bore diameter and takes a gas check like the Lyman 314299 which was originally developed for the 303 British cartridge. Weight lubed,sized and crimped on gas check is something like 205-210 grains you may do better. I use the same bullet in a Finnish M27 and easily get 2" groups. At 72 the limiting factor is my eyes. Frank

  3. #3
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    how many grains of that pulled powder are you using ? A tuft of Dacron may help . What kind of accuracy are you getting currently ? Honestly I've never weight sorted any of my rifle bullets ,never had a need but I'm not trying for 1 hole groups in bench rest matches either
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I don't think I'm a good enough shooter for + or - 0.3 grains to make any difference.

    Are you shooting in competition? Seems like with all the craze over powder coating, I don't hear of guys winning bench rest matches with it. Draw whatever conclusions from that you want, but I think if I were looking for peak accuracy, I'd get a mold that dropped to the right diameter and size and lube normally.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    swheeler's Avatar
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    How did they shoot without weight sorting, 1800 fps is fast for plain based bullets. I guess try it and see if you can tell a difference on target. I don't think I would put any kind of scratches in the base of a plain based bullet though, nose maybe.
    Hell, I was there!

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy nueces5's Avatar
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    Thank you all with your answers.
    I did tests and the best group was with 28 grains of powder. No changes using or without dacron.
    Use 314299 of lyman, in my case cast 0.312-0.313, with PC slightly increased its diameter.
    I use tube lead and add linotype and some tin. With that alloy I have some 190-192 grains boolits.
    Immediately afterwards I get an 18-20 BHN
    Then I make them PC and panlube with simple lube.
    I don't use gascheck because I shot at 1800 FPS
    Here in Argentina, gaschecks are hard to come by and expensive.
    I made my own GC but I am not happy with its quality.
    I am trying to make my boolits as accurate as possible so I can modify other variables and improve the accuracy of my Mauser.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Get your velocity down to 1600 fps or lower, should fix your problem
    with plain base bullets. Fit the bullet to the throat of the rifle. Lube the
    bullets with BLL for best results.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Of course, you could paper patch your bullet and drive it at factory or arsenal velocity with great accuracy and terminal effect.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Argentina,always wanted to visit. Closest I ever got was Brazil. Find out the exact land and groove dimensions of your barrel bu slugging the bore. Your numbers for your 314299 sound on the small size from my 314299. It casts .303-304 0n the land riding section and .314 on the bore section. Once you have the interior diameters land and groove numbers you will have a better idea of what your barrel wants. At least .002 over the bore dimensions. How good is your barrel.Frank

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy nueces5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webfoot10 View Post
    Get your velocity down to 1600 fps or lower, should fix your problem
    with plain base bullets. Fit the bullet to the throat of the rifle. Lube the
    bullets with BLL for best results.
    I dont know what is BLL

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cash View Post
    Of course, you could paper patch your bullet and drive it at factory or arsenal velocity with great accuracy and terminal effect.
    Paper patch it's a pending issue

    Quote Originally Posted by samari46 View Post
    Argentina,always wanted to visit. Closest I ever got was Brazil. Find out the exact land and groove dimensions of your barrel bu slugging the bore. Your numbers for your 314299 sound on the small size from my 314299. It casts .303-304 0n the land riding section and .314 on the bore section. Once you have the interior diameters land and groove numbers you will have a better idea of what your barrel wants. At least .002 over the bore dimensions. How good is your barrel.Frank
    I had only measured the largest diameter, so I will measure again.
    When you want to travel, send me a message and I can provide you with first-hand information. I have traveled a large part of my country by motorcycle

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    What size groups are you getting now? Are the bullet holes in the target round or oblong? My 1891 mauser has a bore that is considerably larger than. 314 and I have to use a larger bullet.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    7br aka Mark B.

    On the internet, I am 6ft tall, good looking and can dance.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    File marks on the BASE are the last thing you want on a plain based bullet! If you have to mark them mark the nose, a permanent marker works too, I use them on brass and bullets on occasion.
    Hell, I was there!

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy nueces5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7br View Post
    What size groups are you getting now? Are the bullet holes in the target round or oblong? My 1891 mauser has a bore that is considerably larger than. 314 and I have to use a larger bullet.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Normally 2 moas, sometimes I get down to 1 moa, but it's not the rule. Sometimes it disperses more
    I think the holes are round, but I will pay more attention



    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    File marks on the BASE are the last thing you want on a plain based bullet! If you have to mark them mark the nose, a permanent marker works too, I use them on brass and bullets on occasion.
    swheeler, I am sorry that English is not my native language, I have studied a bit but I must use the online translator, so I do not understand what you mean. If it's not an offense, could you explain in other words?

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    7br's Avatar
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    2 moa is not bad for cast.
    Here is the a bit of information on my work with my mauser
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...7-65-Argentine
    7br aka Mark B.

    On the internet, I am 6ft tall, good looking and can dance.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Ben's Liquid Lube is nothing more then equal parts Lee Liquid lube, Mineral Spirts
    and Lundmark Liquid Paste Wax. Mixed together. Put your bullets in a plastic container
    with lid. Two or three drops of lube on the bullets and swish them around till coated.
    Then spread them out on wax paper to dry. I use three thin coats and never get any
    leading. Used to be a posting on here about Ben's Liquid Lube but I see that it's been
    deleted.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I'm afraid my long distance traveling days are long over. Brazil I visited over 50 years as a guest of Uncle Sam back in '66-67 But do appreciate the offer.Frank

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I was trying to make some scratches with a file in the base to match the weight.

    Don't do that, you want the base as near perfect as can be for the best accuracy.
    Hell, I was there!

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy nueces5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    I was trying to make some scratches with a file in the base to match the weight.

    Don't do that, you want the base as near perfect as can be for the best accuracy.
    Perfect!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Nueces,

    This subject has been discussed and tested in depth within this group of members since before this forum existed.

    The concensus, borne out by being tested by many members over the years is that one should think about the percentage variation within a group rather than one or two points of measurable difference.

    There seems to be very little difference in accuracy between zero variance in weight and about 5 percent. Many have reported little difference up to 10 percent. One, two, three grains will make no difference in a .458 bullet, but apply it to a .226 cast bullet and the percentage goes way up. 15 grains might enlarge the group a bit in a .357, but go ahead, try to get anything less than a shotgun pattern in a .223.

    This is not to say that I am against grouping my bullets weight like you did. When you cast, if you're really in the rhythm, with a big enough sample size, you will find that your castings will fall very close to 2 specific weights, with a few outliers in each direction.

    I don't have enough experience with PC to know how much it throws the variance off.

    With .22 castings, after rigorous visual culling, I weight separate by .2 grains and then load up ammunition boxes by groupings. With .45 rifle castings, I don't bother at all unless I'm really trying to shoot groups. Then, most usually, if the weight is off by more than 2,3,4 grains or so, it's radically off because of a void or a missed surface defect due to culling them with my glasses off.

    Keep weight sorting, it helps eliminate another variable in the equation from being the or one of the culprits. As has been said, how perfect the base of the bullet is, is FAR more important than gross weight variation.

    I am also curious why you re pc'ing them twice. Isnt that unnecessary?
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

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  20. #20
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    "There seems to be very little difference in accuracy between zero variance in weight and about 5 percent."

    This is correct with most rifles, especially milsurp rifles being shot with issue sights at 50 - 100 yards/meters. However, with really accurate rifles (includes milsurp rifles in excellent condition set up with a scope/match sights for match level competition) proper weight sorting can make a difference at 100 yards and especially at longer ranges. Additionally Proper weight sorting is also quite beneficial for HV shooting at 100+ ranges using rifles that are very accurate to begin with.

    However, I don't think weight sorting will prove of much value if the bullets are PC'd. I just don't see PC'd bullets being competitive where accuracy is the concern such as in CBA matches. In other types of matches such as SASS competitions where targets are close and big PC'd bullets seem to be holding their own.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check