Very old CVA rifle

[LAGS]

It is the OP's decision on which way he is going to repair his rifle.
But we have given him many good suggestions and options.
There are over 100 ways to Skin A Cat.
But it is His Time , Money and Finished product that "He" has to worry about.
Lets let him Run with his options, and see where he ends up.
If it was MY rifle, I would have to have it in my hands to look at it and work up my final plan.

[725]

I had (still have) such a CVA. When I got it for $25, the barrel looked OK but the chamber area was pitted. I could just feel the corroded surface in the chamber with a cleaning jag. Had the barrel cut short from the chamber end, refitted a new breech plug, re-finished the stock, polished the brass and promptly went out and shot the biggest buck I've ever gotten. The thing (even though it's short) shoots like a house-a-fire. As noted above, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. Go forth and have some fun.

[longbow]

I have the same gun (or a CVA with same breechplug design anyway) bought as a kit in the 1980's. Not sure where my barrel was made but same design as yours. I wanted to convert to flintlock as could be done with the old Thompson Center muzzleloaders. lock plates are the same so I figured I could make an insert to replace the nipple drum and drill a flash hole in it. I got hold of CVA many yearas ago when they still supplied traditional style muzzleloaders to ask and their response was that the breech plug is not removable at all. I took it that the breech plug was press fit to the barrel then nipple drum pressed in or maybe threaded in from their description. Obviously the breech plug is screwed in from posted pic but it may be am interference fit so not removable for that reason. Regardless they said it is not removable at all.

If you are bent on getting it out I am sure it could be drilled then bored until reaching the threads then removed. Once the breech plug is out I am sure the threads could be recut to "standard" thread form and a new breech plug installed. Unless you have a lathe or have access to a lathe though I suspect it would cost more than a new barrel in the end.

The welding idea seems like a reasonable approach and just live with a non-removable breech plug.

Longbow

[waksupi]

I would cut the breech end back, get rid of the patent breech, and start over.

[indian joe]

The welding idea seems like a reasonable approach and just live with a non-removable breech plug.

Longbow

easy enough to live with it - I just keep wonderin why anybody would want to pull the breech plug from a perfectly serviceable barrel???? totally mystified by that I am. I have half a dozen sidelock mloaders I've been shooting since the 1980's - the urge to debreech any of them has eluded me entirely.

[Gtek]

The wonderful thing about octagon barrels is they can USUALLY/SOMETIMES land well in lathe chucks and the sides are flat for a mill vise.

[beemer]

I have taken several apart and have a plug out of a bad barrel so I took a good look at it. I don't think it's really a bad system unless you need to repair it. The biggest problem is installing and timing the drum.

I am sort of with Waksupi on this one. Even then you will have to make sure the drum lines up with the lock and maybe move the barrel loop and ramrod. It might be more trouble than it's worth, especially if you have to hire it done.

Personally I would have a new plug and drum installed and strip all the parts and make a new stock more to my liking but I realize that's not an option for everyone.

Dave

[Buzzard II]

Everyone will be horrified at this but
They busted the hook off because they didnt know how a CVA goes together - the breech plug will not have moved - the nipple drum on CVA goes through the end of the breech plug and locks the whole thing up - if was mine I would weld a chunk of metal back on where they busted it off and recut the hook part so it locks back in the tang - the breech plug and nipple drum shuld be safe and sound they just boogered the hook off it - Mig weld it back and ya good to go.

Waiting for the howls of derision and oh no's to arrive

I'm also with indian joe. TIG a new piece on and shape it to fit.

[indian joe]

Hello Joe,

Not seeing the picture of the damaged hook, I'd still remove it.
Even if I had to drill it out & build a new plug.
My biggest fear of welding it in place is it would never come out.

That's my opinion, AntiqueSledMan.

Fear it would never come out ?? I think that would be good ! why do we want the breech plug to come out ? I dont get that ..

However if there was a fear about welding it - mine would be maybe we loosen the threads --an old trick we use for getting frozen bolts and broken studs out whilst repairing machinery is to weld something (a smaller diameter bolt maybe) onto the busted stud - the quick heat from welding doesnt do much but the contraction of the metal afterward shrinks the frozen stud enough to turn it out esily using the stub welded onto it - done this one lots of times -

[LAGS]

I am with Joe on his fix if you want to possibly remove the breech plug then weld a new hook on to it.
I worked as a heavy equipment mechanic for ten years , and welding a smaller stud onto a broken bolt was the way we removed them.
You just have to be really careful and not weld the plug to the hole it is in.
I used to remove bolts by welding studs on them , but my welding skills are not what they use to be.
But I am sure the OP knows a good welder if he is not confidant in his abilities in either removing the plug or just welding on a new hook.

[Fly]

I.m for easy (wink) . If you have excess to a Tig, a mill go for it.

Fly

[indian joe]

I.m for easy (wink) . If you have excess to a Tig, a mill go for it.

Fly

yup!!!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Joe,

Not knowing what material the plug is would be another concern. In the field, if we didn't know what the material was, we didn't weld it. Some materials would crystalize, I sure wouldn't want something like this that close to my eyes, but of course I won't. Also I'm not so sure that a licensed gunsmith would weld on it.

Again just my opinion, the owner needs to make the call.
AntiqueSledMan.

[cold1]

I broke mine off my CVA the same, fir the same reason. Mine did not have the hook but a flattened machined ball on tte end of the plug. I used a torch and brazing rod to build up a new blob of metal and then used files to turn the blood into the shape I needed.

Several hundred rounds later and it still shoots well.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=AntiqueSledMan;4740379]Hello Joe,

Not knowing what material the plug is would be another concern. In the field, if we didn't know what the material was, we didn't weld it. Some materials would crystalize, I sure wouldn't want something like this that close to my eyes, but of course I won't. Also I'm not so sure that a licensed gunsmith would weld on it.

Correct - the gunsmith would likely take out the drum and throw it, drill and easy out the plug and its trashed, proly cut two inches off the barrel to get rid of the old chamber and metric thread, make and fit a new breech plug, new nipple drum, he needs to do all that exactly same as original otherwise the drum dont fit the lock, then he needs to recut the wedge pin dovetail and relocate that, shorten the under rib, if its gonna shoot in competition maybe the rear sight needs moved forward - thats another dovetail and plug the old one - none of this is bad or wrong except for when he presents his bill and the owner figures he coulda bought a new gun for less.

Ya could tie that barrel down in the stock as is with a two dollar hoseclamp or twenty cents worth of ducktape an it wuld be perfectly safe to shoot for the rest of our lives.

[trebor44]

What my CVA Mountain Rifle breech area looks like. Yeah it is a shooter. These can be found for about $300 in good condition but this one is mint and marked "Made in the USA". I thought about turning it into a 'blanket' gun but it would be easier to do with one of my Lyman GPs since the barrels are a simple swap. There is an article on cutting down muzzle loader barrels by the inch to check accuracy and it was surprising how short they could be before accuracy suffered.

[bob208]

for such a simple fix. I have seen some real hard ways to get there cut the barrel off !! weld the breach plug in! you will not be able to get it lined back up if you do take it apart !! some real bubba work.

I just had the breach plug out of my flintlock had to move the touch hole. have had to take others out to fresh out or reline.

[waksupi]

for such a simple fix. I have seen some real hard ways to get there cut the barrel off !! weld the breach plug in! you will not be able to get it lined back up if you do take it apart !! some real bubba work.

I just had the breach plug out of my flintlock had to move the touch hole. have had to take others out to fresh out or reline.

I don't understand why people have trouble re-indexing breech plugs. I've done dozens with no problem. Just make an index mark before removing a plug,

[beemer]

I have removed the plug on several CVA rifles and put them back using an index mark, the threads for the drum need to line back up. The only problem with removing the CVA is the small hook doesn't leave a lot of area for a wrench, you just need to be careful and stop if things don't work out.

Dave

[KCSO]

If the drum and nipple have no flats for turning out the drum you will need special tools to do it the CVA way. The breech was screwed in and the drum screwed into the barrel and through the breech plug and THEN the whole works was drilled for the powder chamber. I am redoing one of these right now and I can PM pictured on Thursday when I get the whole works apart. These are a pita to work on and I for one whould rather have an old style drum set up, but they are about bullet proof, you just can't work on them at home.