Very old CVA rifle

[megasupermagnum]

My dad brought me an old CVA rifle today that really surprised me. The reason he brought it over is that about 15 years ago my uncle had bought it, loaded it, and went out to hunt. We all know the story, the rifle wouldn't go off. He and my dad had tried many caps, and not being knowledgeable about muzzleloaders, had tried to remove the breech plug. They ended up breaking the hook off of the plug. It sat in the corner until today. I sprayed some PB blaster down, screwed the ball puller in, and it turned out to be one of the easiest balls I've ever pulled. Hardly any effort at all. The powder, or what is left of it, is a mushy mess that I have yet to clean out.

Now here is what gets me. The gun is very nice, I was blown away when I read Connecticut Valley Arms on the barrel, especially when it was followed in bold MADE in USA. A CVA made in USA? A quick search shows this is true, and likely a Douglas barrel. Despite the mistreatment, the rifling is actually looking very good. I'd about guarantee the breech area is pitted where the powder is, but beyond that is in great condition. The only thing this rifle needs is a breech plug, and a gunsmith to replace it. I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

[LAGS]

Good luck with your latest project.
I am sure you can find someone to install a new breech plug up in your area.
Or if you can't find a new plug, make one for you.

[OverMax]

Any competent gunsmith can do.
Although consider calling a place of business like Track of the Wolf to see if a OEM or substitute breech plug is available?

[megasupermagnum]

I see TOTW has a number of breech plugs, but it's looking like I would have to get a tang to go with them. This CVA is a percussion gun, with a "barrel" for lack of a better word, for the nipple and flash channel. The original hook breech is just a plug, and in TOTW the flintlock style's look more like what I need than the percussion style. This plug and tang look very close to the originals. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/PLUG-EF-18-3

I realize that one is a 1 1/8" flat octagon, but the shape is there. If nobody knows what size plug is in this CVA, it looks like I'll have to have a gunsmith try and get it out for me first.

[indian joe]

I see TOTW has a number of breech plugs, but it's looking like I would have to get a tang to go with them. This CVA is a percussion gun, with a "barrel" for lack of a better word, for the nipple and flash channel. The original hook breech is just a plug, and in TOTW the flintlock style's look more like what I need than the percussion style. This plug and tang look very close to the originals. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/PLUG-EF-18-3

I realize that one is a 1 1/8" flat octagon, but the shape is there. If nobody knows what size plug is in this CVA, it looks like I'll have to have a gunsmith try and get it out for me first.

Everyone will be horrified at this but
They busted the hook off because they didnt know how a CVA goes together - the breech plug will not have moved - the nipple drum on CVA goes through the end of the breech plug and locks the whole thing up - if was mine I would weld a chunk of metal back on where they busted it off and recut the hook part so it locks back in the tang - the breech plug and nipple drum shuld be safe and sound they just boogered the hook off it - Mig weld it back and ya good to go.

Waiting for the howls of derision and oh no's to arrive

[megasupermagnum]

Everyone will be horrified at this but
They busted the hook off because they didnt know how a CVA goes together - the breech plug will not have moved - the nipple drum on CVA goes through the end of the breech plug and locks the whole thing up - if was mine I would weld a chunk of metal back on where they busted it off and recut the hook part so it locks back in the tang - the breech plug and nipple drum shuld be safe and sound they just boogered the hook off it - Mig weld it back and ya good to go.

Waiting for the howls of derision and oh no's to arrive

You know, I'll ask if he has the hook. If he does, that is a genius idea! Of course I'll make sure the drum (is that the proper term?) is not ruined, but to me it looks like the breech plug never even moved.

[Gtek]

I am in the Indian Joe tribe! Remove tang from rifle then weld correct piece on barrel and fit/machine better than it came new. Think I would Tig before Mig if available.

[LAGS]

I too am with Indian Joe on this.
It may be faster than trying to find a new plug.
But getting the old plug out without the tab may be a slight problem without distroying the plug.

[megasupermagnum]

No go on the old hook. I'll have to make one from scratch. I do have access to a tig welder, which is what I'll use. I can also use the Bridgeport. I'll try and make one that is close, but a little too tight first, and weld that on.

I hope this turns out as well as it sounds in my head. I don't want to turn this into a big project, and otherwise the rifle is in great shape.

[sharps4590]

Unless the rifle had been fired there's no reason the breech area should be pitted, unless the powder charge got soaked somehow. BP isn't corrosive until after it's fired.

[megasupermagnum]

Unless the rifle had been fired there's no reason the breech area should be pitted, unless the powder charge got soaked somehow. BP isn't corrosive until after it's fired.

There is no way to know if it had been fired. Nobody seems to remember anything about it. Just as likely my uncle strolled out of the shop 15 years ago, and went hunting with it the next day. It didn't fire, and I'm not sure why. There was powder in it, but it's condition is unknown. Now it is just a slop, as I had sprayed a bunch of PB blaster in. Fingers crossed for a pristine bore.

[indian joe]

You know, I'll ask if he has the hook. If he does, that is a genius idea! Of course I'll make sure the drum (is that the proper term?) is not ruined, but to me it looks like the breech plug never even moved.

thanks guys ! -thought that suggetion would draw a heap of criticism from the sky is falling brigade

TIG or MIG -- I dunno the difference - still stick welder meself and reckon I could do it that way - thing is here the breech plug and nipple drum will be whole and hearty and better left undisturbed - all thats required is a good enough hook to hold the barrel down safe

[LAGS]

I think you have a good point about not removing the breech plug and just welding a new hook on it.
The only draw back I see would be that the breech plug will then Never removable.
But , really , how often is it truely needed to be pulled out.
I only did it to have barrels Re-bored.

But down the road , if you decide to have the barrel Re-bored, then the barrel can be shortened and a new breech plug installed.
My suggestion , stick with the cheapest and quickest fix for right now.

[megasupermagnum]

I would only be welding a hook on the plug itself. The plug would still be removable.

[LAGS]

That should work if you stay away from the edge of the threads on the plug and barrel.
I just don't have that much confidence in my welding.
But most others are way better welders than I am.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello megasupermagnum,

Indian Joe is correct, see illustration from the 1980 CVA Catalog.
I've seen these listed on Ebay from time to time, nothing at present.
It sounds like you have one of the original Mountain Rifles, good shooters.
I believe the barrels were made in the U.S.A.,
but the rest came from Spain, still good shooters with a 1/66 twist.
Personally I'd remove the Drum and the remainder of the breech plug before repair.

Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.

[indian joe]

Hello megasupermagnum,

Indian Joe is correct, see illustration from the 1980 CVA Catalog.
I've seen these listed on Ebay from time to time, nothing at present.
It sounds like you have one of the original Mountain Rifles, good shooters.
I believe the barrels were made in the U.S.A.,
but the rest came from Spain, still good shooters with a 1/66 twist.
Personally I'd remove the Drum and the remainder of the breech plug before repair.

Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.

How ya gonna get the plug out? hook is gone off it - nuthin to get a hold on ta turn it - gotta be ultra precise puttin it back together or the nipple drum threads booger up - this one place where I reckon what looks ike a rough repair might turn out the best option -----its either that or a new plug + gunsmith fees - versus a tig weld and some filing .

There is another simple option starin us in the face here --- weld the tang to the back end of the barrel - that would be a real simple Tig or Mig job - then gotta take the tang screw out to remove the barrel for cleaning ------so what?????

I reckon thats an even better plan and easier too!!!

[bob208]

as shown in the picture you have to remove the drum first. then unscrew the breach plug. if it just the hook broke off I have silver sobered them back on. just don't use the wrench on it to reinstall. they are simple plug and easy to make a new one if needed.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Joe,

Not seeing the picture of the damaged hook, I'd still remove it.
Even if I had to drill it out & build a new plug.
My biggest fear of welding it in place is it would never come out.

That's my opinion, AntiqueSledMan.

[Doubletap]

Removing the drum and or breechplug on a CVA is a big no-no. Because of the way they are manufactured (see the excellent pics above) when you put the drum back in chances are it will not index with the flash channel in the proper position for the flash to make it to the powder charge. The drums are pretty soft steel and the threads are easily pushed when unscrewing/installing them. CVA drilled the flash channel after they assembled the drum and breechplug in the barrel, so it didn't matter for them. You also can't just install a conventional drum in them because the empty cavity in the breechplug will grab a patch when you clean. Been there done that about 40 years ago.
If the barrel isn't pitted up just in front of the breechplug, TIG an extension on the back of the plug and file it into the hook you need to fit the tang.
BTW, the earlier CVA's marked "US" also had US made locks. The Spanish locks were stamped "Spain" inside, the U.S. ones are unmarked. The stock should also be maple. The factory stock shaping leaves a lot to be desired, but they can be reshaped into decent looking stocks. Dump the mystery material fore end tip, and pour yourself a pewter one, solder on a real rib, inlet the thimbles and solder them on like a real rifle, and they look and shoot pretty darn good! Even the Spanish made barrels shoot well, and the Spanish locks spark decently too. My favorite squirrel rifle uses one, cuz it was laying around the shop when I was stocking it up. 35 years later it still sparks well. Have fun and turn that relic back into a shooter again.