1894 Remlin .44 mag accuracy issue

[Shuz]

Well I took the Remlin out again yesterday and fired several boolits designs with Trail Boss, Green Dot and Unique. All boolits were sized .433, but when loaded on my Square Deal B, the crimp die must be swaging the boolit down some because the neck measurement was less than when the round came out of the seating die! Perhaps they were .432 or less? I'spose I could forego the Square Deal B crimp die, and run each round thru the Lee FCD so as to keep the original .433 dimension, but that is a step I'd rather not do. After all, I use this Square Deal B for 10 different .44 magnum revolvers from 329PD to model 69, and lots of Rugers, as well as 2 Winchester rifles and a Rossi 92, and I don't have to use the Lee FCD on them. I'm about ready to give up on getting this rifle to shoot at least 2" at 50 meters. Like Herman Cain said,
"This dog don't hunt!"

[Shuz]

Well, this bull headed German couldn't just give up! I tried a different load, and now I am consistently getting 5 shot groups that are
less than 2" at 50 meters. The "magic" load for this Remlin turns out to be 9.1g of Unique behind an MP-433-640L hollow point at Saeco 8 (10:1 alloy ww:lino) and .433 diameter sizing on the boolit. 1.595"is the OAL. CCI 300 primer and StarLine brass. The Square Deal B crimp die is evidently swaging the boolit down some because the neck at the bulge was .001 to .002 smaller in diameter than when measured right outta the seating die. Interestingly the same alloy casting a 265g Ranch Dog boolit that was .432 in diameter to begin with, and using the same 9.1g Unique, did not shoot worth sour owl manure, but the difference in weight was 217g vs 273g. After playing around with this rifle for quite some months now, I'm convinced that bbl and/or loading tube harmonics have a major impact on how these rifle shoot. All groups I shot were with 5 loaded in the tube to begin with.
Now I gotta work on that lousy trigger.

[Ramjet-SS]

This was a fun read I love those who will not give up and just keep working to improve ..... nice stuff.

[Tripplebeards]

Well I took the Remlin out again yesterday and fired several boolits designs with Trail Boss, Green Dot and Unique. All boolits were sized .433, but when loaded on my Square Deal B, the crimp die must be swaging the boolit down some because the neck measurement was less than when the round came out of the seating die! Perhaps they were .432 or less? I'spose I could forego the Square Deal B crimp die, and run each round thru the Lee FCD so as to keep the original .433 dimension, but that is a step I'd rather not do. After all, I use this Square Deal B for 10 different .44 magnum revolvers from 329PD to model 69, and lots of Rugers, as well as 2 Winchester rifles and a Rossi 92, and I don't have to use the Lee FCD on them. I'm about ready to give up on getting this rifle to shoot at least 2" at 50 meters. Like Herman Cain said,
"This dog don't hunt!"

When you had flyers I was wondering if you’re using gas checks. When I first started reloading with my 44 mag and 450BM I’d get random flyers and after looking at my pile of bullets I made I had some gas checks that went on crooked. This is a good read. I have a 1970 336 in 35 Rem and I did a ladder test on some 180 grain Speer hot cores for it when I first got it probably 10 years ago and the best group I shot was 7/8” at 100 yards. I haven’t really shot it since. I do plan on loading up some cast lee 200 grain pc and GC and giving it a whirl with a ladder test at 100 yards again soon. My 336 slugs at .357 and I plan on trying .3595” boolits. If it doesn’t shoot I’ll have to check out that book. My guess is if it shoots that good with J words it probably will shoot fine with Cast. I also had some large groups with my 44 mag using roll crimps . I switched over to the Lee Collett factory crimp die and My groups shrank ridiculously. I have the same Collett die in 35 room that I’ll be using usI have the same Collett die in 35 Rem that I’ll be using.

[Shuz]

When you had flyers I was wondering if you’re using gas checks. When I first started reloading with my 44 mag and 450BM I’d get random flyers and after looking at my pile of bullets I made I had some gas checks that went on crooked. This is a good read. I have a 1970 336 in 35 Rem and I did a ladder test on some 180 grain Speer hot cores for it when I first got it probably 10 years ago and the best group I shot was 7/8” at 100 yards. I haven’t really shot it since. I do plan on loading up some cast lee 200 grain pc and GC and giving it a whirl with a ladder test at 100 yards again soon. My 336 slugs at .357 and I plan on trying .3595” boolits. If it doesn’t shoot I’ll have to check out that book. My guess is if it shoots that good with J words it probably will shoot fine with Cast. I also had some large groups with my 44 mag using roll crimps . I switched over to the Lee Collett factory crimp die and My groups shrank ridiculously. I have the same Collett die in 35 room that I’ll be using usI have the same Collett die in 35 Rem that I’ll be using.

When I had the flyers, some had gas checks, and those that didn't, were at least, plain base by design. The load that shot so good yesterday was a plain base MP-433-640L; Miha's "light" version of the Lyman Devastator.
I did some measuring today and found that my Dillon SDB crimp die is compressing my boolits from .433-.434 as sized, to .432-.433. Evidently that amount doesn't matter. Perhaps the fact that the boolits are relatively hard at Saeco 8 (Bhn 14-15) is a factor?
I mounted a Nikon 3x9 on this rifle, and I am impressed with it's clarity and tracking ability. Next project will be to adress the extremely hard trigger pull.

[Tripplebeards]

Nikons are awesome! I have several...probably close to a dozen! Let me know how you do a trigger job and post pictures of it when you’re done. My pull is actually pretty decent but I’ve never tried my pull scale on it. The only bad thing is is it doesn’t have a safety except for the partial cocking of the hammer. I’d rather have the new style Remlin safety on my old 1970 rifle so I can quietly take it on and off instead of cocking my hammer with a loud click.


Here’s my 44’s with the lee collet style factory crimp used on Lyman devastator‘s. I see them deep just above the crimp groove. You can see when I crimped them it rolls my case on top of the boolit locking it in place. Like I said in my earlier post once I switched to this scrimp my groups dramatically shrunk in size. I never expected to shoot sub moa at 100 yards with my 77/44 and achieved it with two different loads after I changed to this crimp style.







I was using a Nikon pro staff five 3.5x14 and my trigger is just under 2lbs.


I switched scopes on it a couple months ago and threw an older 3 x 9 Leupold on it. I swear I shot a tighter group when I sighted it in at 100 yards with my softer alloy sub MOA load that I shot a .8” previously with it. Two were touching and one was just slightly out!

I tell you it’s worth the $16 I paid for it on eBay. I know I’m not too hot with role crimping as I had a couple hundred feet per second variance on a few rounds. This crimp takes all the guesswork out of it and make a more even crimp and seal imo.

[Shuz]

Tripplebeards--Those pictures sure are nice and sharp! Looks like you are shooting Easter eggs!
As I mentioned earlier, I load my. 44's on a Dillon Square Deal B and this would require me to remove the crimp die and then run the rounds thru my Lee FCD. This is a step I'd rather not do.

[Maven]

Ray, Have you considered a taper crimp die, which you'd simply substitute for the crimp die on your Dillon SD-B? I use a Redding taper crimp die, which is adjustable, and have had "0" problems with bullet pull or accuracy in my Ruger SBH.

[Shuz]

Ray, Have you considered a taper crimp die, which you'd simply substitute for the crimp die on your Dillon SD-B? I use a Redding taper crimp die, which is adjustable, and have had "0" problems with bullet pull or accuracy in my Ruger SBH.

Paul,perhaps you are not aware that the Square Deal B will not accept dies that are the normal 7/8x14. If it would, I'd simply swap out the Dillon crimp die for the Lee FCD that I have. Perhaps I'm not aware, will the Redding die fit in the sSquare Deal B because it is smaller than standard?

[Tripplebeards]

Might be worth buying a extra cheapie loading press and adding another step if it’s going to aid in your accuracy. I bought one and still have to take it out of the box I think I paid like $29 for it with the intent to exclusively size Cast bullets. My loading bench made out of particle board cracked a few years ago trying to size cast. So I picked up a lee to put on my metal bench out in the garage. Looks like they went up in price. I just did a quick Google and found one for 37 bucks. I’m sure they can be had cheaper...

https://eagleeyeoutdoor.com/lee-prec...CABEgI9IvD_BwE

[Maven]

No, I didn't know that Ray, but Tripplebeard's suggestion might be worth considering.

[glockky]

For using oversized bullets in 44 magnum I’ve had the best luck using a lee factory crimp die with the carbide sizer ring in the bottom of the die knocked out. This allows you to crimp without sizing the bullet down.
My JM 1894 likes bullets .4325”. I still haven’t been able to get stellar accuracy out of it though.

[Shuz]

I'm leaving for a 3 week vacation tomorrow, but when I get back, I'll try Tripplebeards and Maven's suggestions on the Lee FCD. I have one, but have never recalled using it. I didn't know it has a carbide sizing ring that can be knocked out. Is that an easy job, or does it require a press of some type? I have an old Herters 3M "Model Perfect" that I'll press into service on this one(pun intended).
glockky--How do you define "stellar accuracy"? Now... I'm not criticizing, just curious.

[Tripplebeards]

You want the “collet” style part number 90930. The video link I posted below shows the other style lee factory crimps have a carbide sizer in them and either roll or taper crimp. The Collett style like I have is a big hollow tube and does not touch your case except for where it applies the crimp so there’s no resizing of your bullet or brass.


I just opened up the custom overrun $27 collet die I ordered directly from Lee in 35 Whelen. It’s a lot fancier in the $16 one I ordered for my 44 mag. My universal case expansion tool showed up today in the same type of Black plastic box. I sure like these over the clear plastic tubes Lee used to put them in!





If you go on my homepage and check out my photos I have posted a lot of groups from my Ruger 7744 and this scrimp style. I have several groups that were an inch and a half at 100 yards and another group that was .8”.

Before switching to this crimp I was basically minute of pie plate at 100 yards.



I found a video showing all three styles...

https://youtu.be/YWnw0sTBO8w

[Shuz]

I can hardly wait to get back home to see what kind of fcd I have.
That video was great! Thanks!

[Norske]

My experience as a range safety officer and as a Marlin shooter mkes me agree with the comment of putting your hand between the bag rest and the for-end. Also try putting the front sand bag under the receiver instead of the fore end. That works well with all my rifles with 2-piece stocks.
Try Elmer Keith's 44 Mag load of a heavily crimped 245gr bullet and 20 grains Allinant 2400 and a standard pistol primer.