1894 Remlin .44 mag accuracy issue

[Shuz]

My new Remlin in .44 mag shoots 1" groups when loaded singly ,and 3 to 4" groups when a total of 5 are loaded in the rifle. The shooting is at 50 yards. Is this normal? If not what can be done to improve the accuracy with 5 loaded in the rifle?

[Drm50]

Never ran across that in a lever. Mag tube must be putting pressure on the barrel when loaded. You might try taking forend off and shooting it that way to see if it's involved. The only other thing would be barrel band exerting pressure when mag spring is compressed when loaded. I have a late 60s 94 in 44mg. Right now has a reciver sight 0ed for dead on at 60yds. I had a 3x scope on it to test loads and benched it cut clovers at 60yds.
I've had a couple others, all older JMs and they all shot about the same.

[DonMountain]

Is the recoil pushing the succeeding rounds bullets back into the casings increasing pressure on them so they don't hit in the same place? Maybe you need a harder crimp?

[W.R.Buchanan]

The loaded magazine is influencing the vibration of the barrel as you shoot.

With the mag empty the influence is still there but it is repeatable with every shot,,, as opposed to a loaded mag which is changing it's weight with every shot..

You should rest the fore end on your support hand on top of your rest, and pull the fore end back into you. Marlins like to have the fore end slightly loose (.01-.02" free play) so it can be pulled back into the receiver. Also there needs to only be contact with the gun at the Fore End Cap and Receiver. The rest of the fore end should not touch the magazine or barrel.

I was told these things by someone who actually knows how to get the best out of a lever gun and they have worked well for me.

Try the shooting part first and see if it makes a difference. The fore end should be free enough from the factory.

Randy

[NSB]

Randy is correct. Lever guns, Sharps, High Walls, etc are all prone to POI changes from any variation in how they sit on the rest, pressure put on the gun while on the rest, and being pulled back into the shoulder. You can prove this to yourself by deliberately changing things like that and then observing what it does to POI with your gun. Repeatability is critical. Until you learn all the nuances of your gun, try shooting it sitting up straight or standing and keeping any pressure off the gun while you shoot it. Keep in into your shoulder as consistent as possible and see what happens.

[samari46]

I've always wondered if you flare the mag tube where it goes inside the receiver if it would improve the loading of cartridges from the loading gate into the flared tube. Would have to experiment with the flaring. too much and wouldn't enter the hole in the receiver or too small wouldn't show much benefit when loading.Siliy idea??. Frank

[txbirdman]

There was a guy named Mic McPherson (I think) that use to specialize in tuning lever guns. Maybe you can find some of his articles on line and get some tips.

[rbuck351]

I have a JM 1894 Marlin in 44mag with scope that won't shoot jacketed factory ammo under 4" at 50yds and that is single loading. At least there is hope for yours. Not sure what to do about mine.

[Drm50]

I have 3 turn of century era Marlin 94s. 25/20, 32/20 and 38/40. None of them will shoot jackets for beans. The 25/20 & 32/20 shoot very well with cast. The 32/20 is exception. The 38/40 is just so so even with cast because bore isnt that good. At 50yds best is 4-5" group. I don't know if I'm going to get a rebore to 44/40 or off it. If they are original I loose interest in them.

[curioushooter]

I had a Marlin 1894 in Microgroove 44 Mag. Though I did observe some change in POI depending upon forend pressure, etc. it was nowhere near what you are observing. I am wondering if another factor is at play here. I did an extensive experiment gradually stripping the entire rifle down so it was just a receiver with no forend or mag tube attached to establish "true best accuracy." This was back in days where I would waste time with paper jacketed bullets (the only kind that rifle would shoot well at all). At 100 yards I never observed anywhere near 4" change in POI. Though I did observe smaller changes.

With my Remlin in 357 mag it shoots pretty much everything equally well so far. The accuracy is not what one would call extreme but at the ranges these rifles are meant to be used (under 150 yards) it is accurate and consistent enough for deer/coyotes/etc. I think this has something to do with the fact that the smaller bore of the 357 results in a thicker walled barrel.

One thing about all guns and hunting (which what I am assuming you are up to) is that the first shot from a cold barrel is what really matters. The rifle should be set for that condition. All the others in that tube are just bonus. See if it does anything with just one or two in the tube vs none in the tube.

[Shuz]

Well, I checked all the screws and found that 1 screw on the for-end was loose by about 1/2 a turn. I tightened up all the screws on the gun and will try again as soon as the weather clears up a bit.

[Shuz]

I tightened all the screws and tried shooting again with 5 rounds in the gun to start. Out of three 5 shot trials, the first shot was always 2" high at 12 o'clock at 50 yards, the second shot was randomly placed 1 higher and 1 lower and 1 on same latitude as first shot, all 2 to 3 inches from the first shot. The 3rd shot was always to the left of the first shot but from 1 inch to 3 inches away. The 4th shot was always 2 inches higher that the first shot and always to the left. It pretty much looks like it is always in the same relative position to the first shot on each target. The 5th shot was very random with 2 left and 1 right but all within roughly 1 inch of the first shot.
When I got back to my shop, I noticed that the screw that holds the endcap on the magazine is protruding from the tube and touching the bottom of the bbl. I removed the cap and took out the spring, and next I will shoot the gun and see what happens.
In any event I plan to shorten that screw so that it no longer touches the bbl. Whatcha folks think?

[beechbum444]

The McPherson’s book on Marlins is worth every penny...

[Shuz]

The Remlin shot pretty well yesterday with the end cap off so that the end cap screw no longer was touching the bottom of the bbl.
Loaded singly, the group measured 2.005" for 5 shots, with 4 in 1.8".
On a whim, before I file down the screw that holds the end cap on, I thought I would look at my other lever guns to see if the screw touches the bbl or if there was a space there. Low and behold, all my other levers, even the Winchester's 1894's in .44 mag, had that screw touching the bbl. Does anyone know if this is by design, or is it just the way it happens to be?
Perhaps Mic McPherson addresses this in his book that I don't have?

[Shuz]

Today I filed .020" off the end cap screw so that a piece of .007" card stock slides nicely between the tube and the bbl. I also shortened the mag tube spring so that about 4" sticks out of the tube before reassembly(cut off about 5") and put the Remlin back together. We'll see what the next trip to the range produces.

[quasi]

The McPherson’s book on Marlins is worth every penny...

Is that the book that he beds a Marlin 1895 stocks with RTV?!!

[bmortell]

my 1894 from a year or 2 ago the front cap screw looks like it would be touching the barrel but the barrel is milled to have a recess that the screw hovers in. I always hear everyones marlin is different, does yours have chamfered chamber mouth?

[samari46]

McPherson wrote a lot of accuracy articles for Precision Shooting and I'm pretty sure the Accurate Rifle. Sadly both magazines are long gone. Think it was him that did the rtv trick with a lever action.Think after he did his magic on the metal he opened up the inletting on the forend and used rtv as sort of a bedding compound. Google would probably be the best source of trying to locate a copy. Don't know if it is still in print anymore. With the widespread of the internet seems like published material is fast becoming or going the way of the dodo. Frank

[Shuz]

my 1894 from a year or 2 ago the front cap screw looks like it would be touching the barrel but the barrel is milled to have a recess that the screw hovers in. I always hear everyones marlin is different, does yours have chamfered chamber mouth?

I don't know for sure if the bbl chamber mouth is chamfered, but there is a slight beveling to the end of the bbl at the chamber mouth. So far RNFP boolits at an OAL of 1.628" feed and chamber easily.
My bbl does not appear to have a recess in it to accommodate an end cap screw such as mine.

[Larry Gibson]

Common accuracy modifications to tube fed lever actions back in the day were;

File the end cap screw down so it doesn't put pressure on the barrel.

Shorten the magazine spring so it sticks out the end of the tube 4 - 6".

Free float the barrel channel in the forend so it doesn't put pressure on the barrel. Some found a little pressure on the barrel in the first 1 -2" in front of the receiver worked best.

Relieve the top inside of the barrel band so it just doesn't touch the barrel.

In essence what your doing relieving as much pressure and tension as may be on the barrel from the forend and magazine.