.44 mag hard or soft?

[Ledhead]

Long time lurker first time poster. I have a SBH with a 7.5" barrel that I've killed several deer with using 240gr XTPs. They worked well except I didn't always get an exit and in the thickets that I hunt that 2nd hole definitely helps the tracking job.

I have purchased a ranch dog design 265gr RNFP a lee 240gr swc tl and the lee 310gr. The 265 is intended to be used in my 1895 and I have gotten limited success thus far both with PCed bullets and my attempt at bens red lube. No leading but accuracy is only about 5" or so at 100 yards. The 240gr is intended for everyday plinking with about 10gr of unique and the 310gr is intended for hunting with my SBH.

What I've worked up so far with my SBH is it tends to favor the 265gr bullet at about 1150fps but the accuracy isn't that much better then the 310gr at 1200fps (these are actual chronographed velocities) as the 310gr only gives up about 1" of accuracy to the 265gr at 60 yards. If I push the 310gr much harder I either loose accuracy with the load OR I begin flinching not sure which.

Now for the meat of the question. I'm planning on using the 310 for deer this year but I'm not sure on what alloy to attempt to use. I've thought about using a 1 in 20 mix, as I have oodles of roof flashing around, and hope for a bit of expansion within 50 yards but I'm not positive that my velocity is high enough to expand and thus I may loose my sharp meplat apon impact creating the effectiveness of a RN. If I go to hard like my target alloy of 50/50 COWW/#2 alloy it'll have tendency to shatter right? So I suppose the question is what would/do y'all use given the velocity range I'm getting? Most reports I've seen people are using the 310 over 21-23gr h110/296 which gave me nearly 1500 fps so my 19.5gr of 4227 seems pretty anemic compared to that.

Perhaps I'm just overthinking this whole thing and I should just put it in the boiler room and enjoy back straps: I'd just hate to loose a deer due to a lack of research potentially turning me off to cast for hunting. That's what happened when I tried mechanical broadheads for the first time, shot 1 doe lost both blades of a 2 blade head, got the deer but I'll never use mechanical heads again.

[bmortell]

for good wfn expansion at 1200 1-20 or just 50-50 should be about right. but nothing you listed would shatter. and any 300gr 44 will go through a deer fine

[bmortell]

I hit a deer lengthwise with a 250gr truncated cone of pure at 1300 and it rounded over but it still worked good and it dropped, once your in the heavy weight class I think it just works and not much can go wrong.

[GhostHawk]

Below 1400 fps I prefer soft or 50/50 blend of COWW and soft lead with perhaps a bit of tin for fill.

Big, heavy and slow just plain works, just takes more work to go long range with it. You have to put in the time, learn the rainbow.
Just my opinion.

[centershot]

Ledhead, most of my experience with the 44 mag was with a T/C Contender using 250 gr. Keith bullets, plain base. Over the 20+ years I used it I found that I didn't have to push that bullet very fast to kill a deer. Even at 1100 fps, it would penetrate completely. I killed a LOT of deer with that gun! When rifles became legal here, I switched to a 44 mag. Marlin 1894 with the 310 gr. Lee loaded over 11 or 12 grains of 2400, IIRC. The Marlins have a large bore, mine miked .432", luckily my mould dropped COWW bullets at .433". I lubed them in a .434 die and they shot fine! COWW is all you'll need for alloy, I never expected any expansion but any of those bullets left a dead deer in their wake. Find an accurate load and go hunt!

[Thumbcocker]

Perhaps I'm just overthinking this whole thing and I should just put it in the boiler room and enjoy back straps

Yup.

[kingrj]

Long time lurker first time poster. I have a SBH with a 7.5" barrel that I've killed several deer with using 240gr XTPs. They worked well except I didn't always get an exit and in the thickets that I hunt that 2nd hole definitely helps the tracking job.

I have purchased a ranch dog design 265gr RNFP a lee 240gr swc tl and the lee 310gr. The 265 is intended to be used in my 1895 and I have gotten limited success thus far both with PCed bullets and my attempt at bens red lube. No leading but accuracy is only about 5" or so at 100 yards. The 240gr is intended for everyday plinking with about 10gr of unique and the 310gr is intended for hunting with my SBH.

What I've worked up so far with my SBH is it tends to favor the 265gr bullet at about 1150fps but the accuracy isn't that much better then the 310gr at 1200fps (these are actual chronographed velocities) as the 310gr only gives up about 1" of accuracy to the 265gr at 60 yards. If I push the 310gr much harder I either loose accuracy with the load OR I begin flinching not sure which.

Now for the meat of the question. I'm planning on using the 310 for deer this year but I'm not sure on what alloy to attempt to use. I've thought about using a 1 in 20 mix, as I have oodles of roof flashing around, and hope for a bit of expansion within 50 yards but I'm not positive that my velocity is high enough to expand and thus I may loose my sharp meplat apon impact creating the effectiveness of a RN. If I go to hard like my target alloy of 50/50 COWW/#2 alloy it'll have tendency to shatter right? So I suppose the question is what would/do y'all use given the velocity range I'm getting? Most reports I've seen people are using the 310 over 21-23gr h110/296 which gave me nearly 1500 fps so my 19.5gr of 4227 seems pretty anemic compared to that.

Perhaps I'm just overthinking this whole thing and I should just put it in the boiler room and enjoy back straps: I'd just hate to loose a deer due to a lack of research potentially turning me off to cast for hunting. That's what happened when I tried mechanical broadheads for the first time, shot 1 doe lost both blades of a 2 blade head, got the deer but I'll never use mechanical heads again.

Alloy or hardness don't really matter as long as you get good accuracy and little leading in the barrel...Deer will not know the diffference...

[white eagle]

for me 20/1 would work nicely

[Outpost75]

Elmer Keith’s book Sixgun Cartridges and Loads (1936) on pgs. 69-70 states:

“For most revolver cartridges, including all light and normal pressure loads, there is no use to having the bullets harder than one part tin to twenty parts lead for really heavy loads a one to fifteen mixture is hard enough… For automatic pistols, the bullets should be very hard, consisting of about one part tin to ten parts of lead, in order for them to slide up easily out of the magazine into the chamber… A mixture of part tin and part antimony works very well for some heavy loads, but such very hard, brittle bullets are not needed for any revolver load except in the case of extreme penetration, where no upsettage or expansion is wanted.”



I have found Keith's suggestions to work in my last 50 years experience following them.

[megasupermagnum]

I really doubt it is going to matter. There is not enough velocity there to significantly expand the bullet. Whether cast of 20:1 or heat treated wheel weight, I would think performance on game would be more or less the same. That's one of the benefits of a solid bullet verses a hollow point, any alloy will work. Even Linotype alloy shouldn't shatter on game.

[chutesnreloads]

Something else to consider....... Hunting season is SOON.If you go changing alloy/lube /PC ... How much time are you going to have for load work up with the new combination?

[white eagle]

I really doubt it is going to matter. There is not enough velocity there to significantly expand the bullet. Whether cast of 20:1 or heat treated wheel weight, I would think performance on game would be more or less the same. That's one of the benefits of a solid bullet verses a hollow point, any alloy will work. Even Linotype alloy shouldn't shatter on game.

A hunting friend of mine to me horror stories about using straight linotype for hunting boolits
I wouldn't recommend them but to each their own

[Ledhead]

Something else to consider....... Hunting season is SOON.If you go changing alloy/lube /PC ... How much time are you going to have for load work up with the new combination?

There is no discernable difference in the accuracy or POI of the 20 to 1 alloy or the COWW/#2 alloy so really all that is needed is to choose one and sight in as I'm currently sighted with 240gr at about 1100 fps.

[Ledhead]

20 to 1 sure makes a pretty boolit and if it wont turn into a RN then I'll try that this year and just keep all my "hunting" boolits the same as that's the alloy I use in my muzzleloader.

Thanks for the input thus far.

[megasupermagnum]

It wont turn into a round nose. The Lee 310 is a stout nose design. Here is a similar bullet shot in to oak, post #17. An animal is not so hard. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hunting-backup

[hanleyfan]

I have been making mine with range lead, hardness around 12 and I have shot 3 deer with these and they all blew right threw all of them and they all dropped like a rock. that is a RDFN 350gr. boolit going around 1450 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

20 to 1 sure makes a pretty boolit and if it wont turn into a RN then I'll try that this year and just keep all my "hunting" boolits the same as that's the alloy I use in my muzzleloader.

Thanks for the input thus far.

No, it will not "turn into a RN". In fact it will rivet and mushroom if anything. I prefer a 16-1 alloy in my magnum level loads with a 270 gr Lyman Devastator. It is a GC'd bullet and can be pushed to 1350 - 1450 fps over H110 safely out of 6 - 7 1/5" barreled revolvers. In rifles it runs 1600 - 1700+ fps depending on barrel length. Besides being extremely accurate it mushrooms very nicely and holds together giving very quick kills.

Attachment 248886

I've also killed several deer with a Lee C429-240-SWC cast of 16-1 alloy, GC'd, sized .429, lubed with Javelina and pushed at 1450 fps (6 1/2" barreled Ruger). Those held together and mushroomed also. That bullet or the RCBS 44-240-SWC (also GC'd) cast of 20-1 or 16-1 alloy and pushed at true magnum level (yet safe pressure wise) velocities will be accurate and will kill deer very efficiently. If I did not have a Devastator mould either of them would be my choice.

[Tripplebeards]

I tried hard alloy last year with the same boolits Larry posted above at 15.4 BH running 1750 FPS and am going way softer this year with a 7.5 BH so I get some good expansion. The hard 15.4 alloy never expanded and left the exact diameter boolit hole on all my exits. One dropped and the other two ran a hair over 100 yards with double lung shots before expiring. I’m hoping the softer alloy will expand causing extreme shock value for quicker dispatching.

Here’s my link of how my hard boolits did on deer last year. I’m hoping a softer alloy will cause more instant shock for a quicker harvest.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...my-devastators

[725]

This year for bear & deer, I'm loading the lee 310 with about Lyman #2. Harder than I usually use, but I'm expecting good results. It has such a nice sharp & large meplat, I'm not worried.

[beechbum444]

I have been making mine with range lead, hardness around 12 and I have shot 3 deer with these and they all blew right threw all of them and they all dropped like a rock. that is a RDFN 350gr. boolit going around 1450 fps.

350 grainer from a 44 mag at 1450 FPS ....please give me more info ....that’s almost 45/70 weight and velocity to go thru a buffalo