I dunno where you'll wind up but a few thoughts for free:
If you're intent on the .35 bore look to a 300 grain bullet in a Whelen case. The .358 Win is one of my favorites but I would not go where you're going with it.
If you can get over the Mauser idea there's a lot easier ways to wind up on the right path. I'm thinking your working at cross purposes with the idea but that's just me. Single shots are a better platform for this project IMO.
I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.
Dan,
I certainly agree that, ultimately, a single shot rifle would be the best choice for this sort of project. However, there is really only one viable possibility on the market for this - the TC Encore. I have nothing against such a rifle at all...and I have wished for a single-shot for a long time. I don't like TC's prices, however. I've looked at them many times and have always been turned off by the prices, at least at every dealer with which I've had contact. The Ruger single shot I would even consider - as their prices on these are outrageous. The "Handi-Rifle", while an interesting item, is not, in my opinion, of high enough quality to make this a viable option. I've also considered one of those many times - and always shied away from them. So, one of the basic parameters for this project was that it would be based on a milsurp Mauser action (I know the Mausers, just like the 8 x 57 cartridge, backwards and forwards. Of course, turning a milsurp rifle into a "custom" sporter can certainly get expensive VERY quickly, but I can do much of the detail work myself (the only item I intended to farm out was to chamber, thread, cut and crown the barrel blank). I cannot logically eliminate the TC from consideration, though. Perhaps I could find a used Encore action or rifle for a good price.
Anyway, thanks for your input. Such a rifle based on the Encore is a very attractive idea......I'll have to give this much more thought.
I use a 98 mauser in 9.5x57 ack imp. Chambered it with a 6mm ackley Improved & used a Dave Manson 375 neck & throater to cut the neck and throat. the mauser feeds ands chambers great. The rifle goes very well, Use mainly cast boolits from ww And also a lot of 20 to 1 paper patch boolts. We have had no complaints from any critters. I find it an excellent cast boolit hunting round
First pic is a loaded 9-5x57 Ack Imp, With a CBE 376-300 gc fn.
secon pic is a 3 shot group shot at 100yards. loaded with 40.3 grains VV N135 & CBE 376-300gc fn ww @1860fps.
Third pic: From left CBE 378-220gc; Lyman 375449gc; CBE 376-300gc; CBE 377-265 cut with Gas check 320grains, CBE 377-256 20to1 sized to 369 and paper patched; The 2 on right are from a CBE ajustable 369 mold and paper patched, They weigh 250 grains and 280grains.
Last edited by Euan; 02-11-2011 at 03:54 AM.
A Browning High Wall, Model 1885 or copy thereof would make into a good single shot.
Sharps and Rolling Blocks also come to mind for single shots.
Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.
I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.
Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.
BCP, I really wasn't thinking Encore when I said single shots. The Ruger #1 is and option of course but you might do better with a #3 if you find one laying around in a gun store. The Browning is viable is you don't mind the smell of....sushi or something like that. Good platform anyway.
Off on a stray tangent, the Marlin 1895 CB will take all the fun out of your project if you want shortcuts. It's not custom but they shoot the .45-70 PP very well. You could always rebarrel into a....uh.....358-70 wildcat.Or something like that. About the same capacity as the -06 case. No joke about the rifle, they do very well with paper patch out of the box.
I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.
BPC -
Check your private messages, please....
.357Mag
Check out the 96 & 98 mausers at allains armory. These are swedish mausers that may need a little tlc but are in 9.3x57 or 9.3x62 caliber. Or you could rebarrel a 98 mauser to either 9.3x57 or 9.5x57. The 9.3's use .366 diameter bullets and the 9.5's use .375 diameter bullets. He grades bore condition conservatively and has pics as well. Now a 286 gr bullet at 2000fps is nothin to sneeze at. And should you want to paper patch you can have that as well. Hope this helps.Frank
Seems like I read a thread about a .358X57 here a few months ago. The gent was using a shortened .35 Whelen sizer, IIRC. Honestly, to me it just seemed a bit redundant when Mausers already come in 8X57 and can easily be rebarreled to .35 Whelen - an 8mm will do most anything that a .35 will do, although the .35 does allow for significantly heavier bullets. But, that's just me.
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this one??
"Something more in the direction of the .45-70,"
Wow !!! So many great suggestions.....I am making notes of it all. I've got a LOT to consider. Many thanks to all who took the time to reply !
As for the state of my considerations, at this point in time......
I have definitely decided that, if I do actually build such a rifle, I want to stay with a Mauser-based action, basing my efforts around the 8 x 57, as the (conceptual) starting point. So, I will stick with the head diameter, etc. of the 8 x 57. This will simplify matters a good deal, as I know these actions very well... and I can start with a milsurp action. So, that leaves out things like the .45-70, etc.... interesting as it would be. In other words, I have decided to stay with my original concept, as described in my first post. Cost issues, familiarity with the design, the fact that I simply LIKE the Mauser action so much....all are factors. Anyway, so the parameters are set, as far as I'm concerned. Now the details.
As for feeding issues with whatever cartridge I eventually might choose, I am not stuck on the concept of a magazine-fed repeater for such a rifle....and I've always liked single-shots anyway, so I might well end up with a single-shot bolt action. That's OK, if it happens that way - I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I am intrigued with the idea of the .375 dia. bullet...and I'm glad that it is not actually unworkable, based on the 8 x 57, 30-06, or .308 case (which is what I originally thought). So, that will stay in my considerations. I am still of the opinion that something more like a 35 cal (.358 dia. size) would be the better compromise, but that is not final. I am concerned about not getting enough performance out of the really heavy bullets that would be SOP with the .375 (that such heavy bullets would be TOO heavy for the cartridge). I intended to design this animal around bullets of about 250 grains....and I think that I will continue to lean in that direction (just LEAN, for now). Certainly a 300 grain class bullet at something like 1600 fps would pack a useful punch....let alone a 400 grain class one, at 1200 or 1300 fps.
As I said, I have a lot to consider....and this thing may not happen at all. But, right now, I am leaning toward something like 9 x 57 (bumped out to .358"), 9.3 x 57, 9.5 x 57 (bumped to .375), or perhaps the .358 Win. I am even still thinking a bit about the 35 Remington - but that cartridge really is under-powered for my specifications (and 200 grain bullets are better for this one - a 250 grainer would probably not be a good choice). I can use 200 grain bullets in my 8 x 57 as is, so the 35 Rem. should probably be ditched, as not worth the effort.
Well, I've mused enough here. Again, thanks for all of the replies - I am considering everything carefully.
A couple of late comments.
If you can find an 8 x 57 rimmed Siamese Mauser action you can quite easily have a bolt action .45-70. I had one built about 30 years ago and it was an excellent performer. Of course a standard '98 Mauser action can be used for .458 x 2" or about any other chambering you feel like anyway.
Also, if you have no aversion the the Lee Enfield action, they are readily available and can be converted quite easily to 444 Marlin or .458 x 2" as well as any wildcats based on the .303 British or .30-40 Krag.
You seem to be leaning heavily towards 9 x 57 but have you checked out PP boolit availability? The thickness of paper can change finished boolit diameter by several thou but since you don't cast, you are limited to available PP or grease groove boolits that can be sized to suit. Maybe not a problem but...
If you do go 9 x 57 why would you want a 0.358" barrel? That would, make it a wildcat so it wouldn't shoot factory ammo. There is a better selection of 0.358" "J" bullets but if you are shooting PP that shouldn't be an issue. Just curious.
I'm seriously thinking of necking my thermos jug down to a phonograph needle! It should be almost a nanosecond in velocity!!
FPMIII
Its already been done. A problem developed in re-charging cases. The powder had to be put in through the flash hole.
BIC/BS
As per one of Larry Gibson post:
1.. .358 barrel, 8X57 chamber reamer (.358 pilot),
2.. .35 Whelen neck and throat reamer...
3.. Use shortened .35 Whelen dies...
I would make up 3 loaded rounds and have the .35 Whelen neck/throater reamer ground to fit your loaded round measurements....
What you end up with is a Long Necked .358 X 57 (should be 35X60) that should fed nicely through your Mauser action....You may not need or want a long neck with PP boolits , I don't know...But for GG boolits I really like the long neck on the Whelen...
Like others have said alignment and support of boolit with bore through out the firing is key, and that includes the part of the boolit that is in the case neck as the neck releases the boolit during firing...
Last edited by Nrut; 11-09-2008 at 09:57 PM.
OK...this idea intrigues me. I am a 35 fan through and through. I have an 8x57 that has a poor bore so I have been thinking on and off about what I could do with it. I happened on this thread today and I came up with a "new" wildcat.
The cartridges are from the left:
35/30-30
356 Winchester
8X57 Mauser
My wildcat call it a 35X60 (it is 2.365" long)
and
35 Whelen.
Thinking about why I absolutely love the 35/30-30 I decided the 8x57 simply necked up wouldn't have a very long neck, so I ran a 30-06 through a 8x57 sizing die to push the shoulder down to the same place as the 8X57. Next I ran the shell into a 35 Whelen sizer to expand the neck out to 35 caliber. Next I shortened the neck to about .450 long. I like it!!!!!It should be the cat's meow in an old Mauser which is what started this thread.
After having Jesse Ocumpaugh bore and rifle the 35/30-30 I realize that a good smilth can cut the neck to the length one wants without needing a special reamer. The only thing left would be a set of loading dies which I believe could be made from either 8x57 or 35 Whelen dies. Crazy thoughts are now I have to get this one built too!
What do you guys think?
Edd
Last edited by badgeredd; 11-09-2008 at 08:02 PM. Reason: renamed the "new" wildcat
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Nrut
No need for any special dies to load a 35x57. I am loading it with a 35 Whelen die with total satisfaction. It wont size the entire neck or set the sholder back but then it dosnt need to.
BIC/BS
Nrut,
I got so involved in my idea that I didn't notice your post before I posted mine. Do you think the picture above is pretty close to what you describe? I hadn't heard of the cartridge you mentioned.
Bullshop,
Do you see any advantage to the longer neck as shown in the above picture?
Edd
Charter member Michigan liars club!
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Consider the clown(s) just one of God's little nettles in the woods, don't let it detract from the beauty. Sooner or latter you are going to run into the nettles regardless of how careful you are."
Beware of man who types much, but says nothing.
Dan..Originally Posted by Bullshop
The way I understand what Larry was getting at is that you would end up with a case body of the 8X57 (1.933" long) and a neck the same length as the .35 Whelen (.462" long) for a OAL length of 2.395" or 60mm like what badgerred is talking about ...Is that what you have?
I have a little Brno 22H in 7X57 that has a very rough bore...If there is enough meat on the barrel I should have it re-bored to a 35X 2.395" /60mm...I shouldn't have use the term "35X57" in my post above ....
Last edited by Nrut; 11-09-2008 at 09:54 PM.
Edd...That is exactly what I'am talking about..Good work!
Yup you bet I do like the longer neck better. A neck long enough to keep all the bearing surface inside without having the gas check pushed through inside is about right.
My rifle is likely one that was rebored after the war. I think non military folks were not allowed to have military caliber chamberings just after the war. My rifle has the origonal stepped barrel bored out. The puzzler is that when slugged I expected it to mic at .356" but to my surprise and pleasure it is .358". I had a box of old mixed .358" 250gn bullets to be used up and the rifle shoots splendidly. After load development I still have about a box and a half of loaded rounds with 250gn Barns origonals that Jr. hopes to use on caribou, SOON.
BIC/BS
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