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Thread: store bought cast lubed boolits

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy thumbs's Avatar
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    store bought cast lubed boolits

    My buddy was going to buy some PC .308 boolits for his 300 blackout. He picked up some uncoated cast but they were lubed.
    Two questions.
    1. We can't find any load info for these bullets. I looked on line and in a couple of books including Lymans cast boolit book. Actually they didn't list 300 blackout at all. Everything else is Jacketed.
    Ideally he would like to shoot these boolits but cant find load data for them. Can anyone point him in the right direction for load data. He bought 115 grain cast round nose lubed?

    2. Is there an effective way to remove the lube so he can PC the bullets he bought?

    thanks for the help

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    The lube is some form or fashion of a grease/wax.

    To un-lube some I had that got dirt on them-
    I boiled them in soap water, I used dishwasher machine soap that didn't suds up much and is pretty strong.
    The washed them again in lacquer thinner.

    If I had them, I'd just dig around and find a load for them and use 'em like they are.
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  3. #3
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    Obviously I meant Boolits. I hate spell checks.

    Anyway yes I agree. It would be best to just use them the way they are but we can't find any load data for them.

    Is there a general rule of thumb to convert jacketed load data to cast by some kind of formula like reducing the load by 15% and starting there? We don't even know where to start. Don't mind going to light and working up but really don't want to jump into it blind. Not even sure how fast these things can be pushed. He normally starts with low jacketed for his PC bullets but not a clue with cast lubed.

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
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    If I can't find load data (very rare) I just look for a cartridge that holds about the same cc's of water and around the same grain weight boolits, and go from the starting load. It works for me. YMMV.
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  5. #5
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    What is the length of the bullet, and what overall length are you going to load them to?
    I can run some powders through Quickload to give you an idea of where to start.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy thumbs's Avatar
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    Thanks guys everything helps still cant find any data

    Lar45
    Ok these are 309 boolits. They cast and are only lubed in the lube grove.

    The length of the bullet is .675

    The COAL is 1.810. Of course that is negotiable. That is with the bullet going to the top of the shoulder.

    I am guessing I will have to run these things pretty slow maybe 1000 to 1200 fps. Any reason not to run them in an AR upper? Leading of the bore or leading of the gas tube?

    Thanks for the help
    Last edited by thumbs; 09-21-2019 at 10:17 PM.

  7. #7
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    I forgot to ask if they were plain base or gas checked. Also what is the barrel length? I'm assuming a 20" barrel.
    It looks like the pressures are going to be pretty low on everything, so it probably won't cycle the action. I'm not sure how fast you are going to be able to push them without leading, that will probably be a trial and error thing. I have pushed 160gn plain based bullets past 2000fps in my 35 Whelen without leading before, but that is not the norm. You'll probably want to stay below 1500 if it's a plain base bullet, if they are gas checked then you should be able to push them to 1800ish without any problems.
    300 Blackout, 115gn cast, 1.810", 20" barrel (Quickload data, just an estimate)
    Red Dot 3.0gns 1050 fps @ 10kpsi
    Red Dot 6.0gns 1520 fps @ 31kpsi
    Unique 3.5gns 1050 fps @ 7kpsi - pressure is pretty low, might burn dirty
    Unique 6.5gns 1545 fps @ 22kpsi
    2400 10gns 1550 fps @ 14kpsi
    2400 12.5gns 1880 fps @ 24kpsi
    A no2 4gns 1130 fps @ 9kpsi
    A no2 6.6gns 1530 fps @ 23kpsi
    A no9 12.5gns 1860 fps @ 25kpsi
    IMR Trail Boss 4.5gns 1085 fps @ 12kpsi
    IMR Trail Boss 6.5gns 1325 fps @ 22kpsi
    IMR 4227 15.5gns 1845 fps @ 24kpsi
    Remember this is not load data, just a computer simulation.

  8. #8
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    Thanks The barrel length is 10.5" Plain base bullets no checks. I have used 16gr ish using 4227 with PC bullets so 15.5 seems reasonable. I very well may just chalk it up stupidity and have him go back and get the pc bullets.

    I realize shooting with a shorter barrel will effect burn efficiency and velocity but how will it effect pressure? I can see it going both ways but figure the pressure will be lower in a shorter barrel than longer. Again I can see it both ways. In other words the info you listed was for a 20" barrel. How will a 10.5" effect the weight of the charge if at all? Say or example I load 15 gr for use in a 20" barre then run the same ammo in a 10.5 inch. I am guessing it is still safe but the velocity will suffer.

    Any reason not to load cast for an AR? I am thinking about leading the gas tube maybe. Also I have never had luck shooting cast without PC ing them. I always go leading. In general am I pushing them to fast?

    thanks

  9. #9
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    Ok gonna take the chicken way out. Im reasonably comfortable loading PC bullets, not lubed. I decided to put the lubed bullets into the PC oven and get the lube off. Then roll the bullets in a towel to get the excess lube off then PC the bullets. I did one small batch and they worked out fine. I was surprised to find that when I PCed the first 10 (as a trial) the oven actually soften the lead to the point it left impressions in the lead from the screen. ??????? Anyway I lowered the temp and tried it with another batch of 5. This time with a shorter time in the oven and lower temp the came out fine. I sized them and they held the PC fine.
    With my boolits I melted the lube at about 170* for 10 minutes. I PCed them at 350* or a touch less for 15 minutes maybe just a tad lower. I just looked in the oven and when the PC flowed around the lead I took them out.
    I hope this may help someone with the same mistake.
    This maybe just another way to skin the cat.
    Thanks for all the help guys.
    Last edited by thumbs; 09-22-2019 at 01:17 PM.

  10. #10
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    The pressure will stay the same, just the velocity will be lower.
    I talked with a customer a couple of days ago and he is shooting cast in a .223 AR, lubed with my 2500+, he says he shoots a couple hundred rounds a weekend and doesn't have any leading or fouling problems, but is only loading up to 1800fps ish. He says he can keep 5 rounds on a beer bottle cap at 100yds.
    This is the same data, just adjusted for a 10.5" barrel.
    300 Blackout, 115gn cast, 1.810", 10.5" barrel (Quickload data, just an estimate)
    Red Dot 3.0gns 940 fps @ 10kpsi
    Red Dot 6.0gns 1380 fps @ 31kpsi
    Unique 3.5gns 910 fps @ 7kpsi - pressure is pretty low, might burn dirty
    Unique 6.5gns 1385 fps @ 22kpsi
    2400 10gns 1320 fps @ 14kpsi
    2400 12.5gns 1630 fps @ 24kpsi
    A no2 4gns 990 fps @ 9kpsi
    A no2 6.6gns 1395 fps @ 23kpsi
    A no9 12.5gns 1620 fps @ 25kpsi
    IMR Trail Boss 4.5gns 980 fps @ 12kpsi
    IMR Trail Boss 6.5gns 1205 fps @ 22kpsi
    IMR 4227 15.5gns 1590 fps @ 24kpsi
    Remember this is not load data, just a computer simulation.

  11. #11
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    Just an interesting bit of info.
    About 35 years ago a friend got a box of 500 Hardcast bullets, they were .44cal 240gr SWCBB with a hard blue lube. I loaded up a 100rds for him with 9.5grs of Unique in a .44Mag case.
    We went out to a spot in the desert for some fun, shooting at a bunch of old wheel rims. In the course of shooting we recovered 3 or 4 of these bullets.
    They still had lube in the grooves. Lube looked identical to an unfired bullet. NO lube star on the revolvers muzzle at all, and a lot of lead in the barrel.
    Lube Was Not doing It's job. So tried to remove it from the 400 unfired bullets. Dumped them in a big glass mason jar and filled it with acetone. After about a week I checked out the mason jar. The acetone had turned dark blue. Pour out the acetone, and the lube was still there. Boy was I surprised.

    So I called my Dad and asked him how to remove the lube. After he quit laughing, he said to use either use the bullets to flux the melt when casting, 6-8 bullets at a time, melt them all down into ingots or try a new method. Take a stick of Lyman Black Lube, melt it down, and add 2 tablespoons of olive oil. Then while it was still hot, take a 100 bullets at a time and combine with 2 tablespoons of the mixture in a mayonnaise jar, the jars were still glass in those days. Shake for about a minute and dump out on wax paper. Then stand the bullets up and let dry over night.
    It's a real pain to stand up 400 bullets and the lube mix Was Very Messy. But it worked, the lube mix left the bullets a little tacky. Probably why I didn't try tumble lube until a couple of years ago.
    And the results ? No leading at all.
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  12. #12
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    lar45

    Hey thanks for the help and the time to help me out. I have a few of the powders you have numbers for. I will go lite and work up. Thanks. It looks like the PC it working. I had to modify my normal way of PCing but they are in the process of cookin and I may have only a batch or two left. Good thing he only bought 250 for em.
    As for the getting rid of the lube. Heating in the oven and rolling the boolits in a towel works fine. He has some other boolits he purchased a while ago and as Walks says I don't think they did anything but lead the barrel. Since this method seems to work I will do the same with the lubed boolits and save about 500 or em.

  13. #13
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    lar45 and others

    Just got around to loading some of the PC bullets. These are 115gr PC bullets. I am starting with 15.5gr of IMR4227. This seems to get pretty close t the bottom of the neck of the case.

    Now the question.

    The load data from Hornady and others says "OAL is 2.050". I think Lee says "min oal is 2.050." No way will I get that length. That won't even begin to seat the boolit. The boolit is way to short for that number. A good number for me is 1.810" as I stated above. Is there a problem with this OAL? I am seating to the bottom of the case neck leaving a little room between the powder and the boolit. I may be able to get the published OAL but I will only have about 1/8" into the neck of the case.

    thanks
    Last edited by thumbs; 09-29-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  14. #14
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    It shouldn't be a problem seating to 1.810" as long as they will feed from the magazine.
    You will probably get better accuracy if you can seat the bullets out to just touch the lands, but with your short bullets, it may not be possible.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy thumbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    It shouldn't be a problem seating to 1.810" as long as they will feed from the magazine.
    You will probably get better accuracy if you can seat the bullets out to just touch the lands, but with your short bullets, it may not be possible.
    Ha, thanks LOL. I went ahead and loaded some to the 1.810 COAL. That was the problem. They would not function in the firearm. I then lengthen the COAL to 1.850-5 and that seemed to do the trick. I will be testing them today to make sure they are reliable.
    The problem is the lube grove on the cast boolit. I wanted the case to bridge the grove to give the boolit more support. I am just able to do that with the new COAL.
    thanks again

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check