CH Chrome Plated Pistol Dies- 44 Special & Mag Sizer

[KVO]

Older CH die set was recently gifted to me (I know don't look a gift horse in the mouth).

I have a current production Hornady die set that works to complete satisfaction pre-set for progressive loading, so my plan was to use this second set for single stage small batch load development.

My question is on the sizer: There is a prominent ID step about half way in that produces a stepped fully sized case with the die in contact with the shell holder. The neck portion ends up at about .446" diameter, about .010" smaller then the base, or a case FL sized with my other dies. Almost like a 44-40 case. Expanding and flaring the cases afterwards makes for some serious "coke bottle" effect. Other then overworking the brass I'm not too worried about it. Is this how these older dies were spec'd or is this an anomaly? ID finish is smooth, not as if they didn't run a finish reamer deep enough. The previous owner sized many thousands of cases and never seemed to have a problem. The die is clearly marked "44 special and magnum.". Thoughts and experiences?

[mdi]

I think I would check the neck tension/mouth diameter with the bullet you choose to load. I don't think your "neck sizing" would make much difference. I believe SAAMI suggests .457" case diameter just ahead of the case rim, so the back of your cases would be pretty close at .455", good fit. The second round I started reloading was the 44 Magnum (around '86) and I did play with "neck sizing" for my revolvers, just sizing about 3/8"-1/2" of the neck. I didn't see any improvement in accuracy and I wasn't overly concerned with case life, so it was a fun experiment, but no definitive results...

[gwpercle]

Might be a special order die , the base doesn't get sized down as much as the front part that holds the boolit. Sort of like neck sizing . I wonder if this helps with neck tension when loading J-word bullets .
CH would do special dies back then .
Gary

[KVO]

I briefly tried neck sizing pistol brass too, couldn't see any difference even off the bench at my skill level and ammo that wouldn't chamber in some guns when it came time to burn up the experimental leftovers.

I had hadn't considered a custom die! I can promise it results results in PLENTY of neck tension depending on the expander size. I seated and pulled a boolit to test for swaging down... I've never had to whack an inertial bullet puller so hard with a 250gr boolit before.

[Pressman]

I have a set of C-H 243 dies that does not size the base of the case enough to allow cambering in multiple rifles. It's apparently just a screw-up in manufacturing. It's in a box now, never to be used again.
C-H was never a top ofthe line maker, they made dies for unknown numbers of companies, always on the low end of the cost curve.

[n.h.schmidt]

My old RCBS 357/38 plain steel die set has this two dia step. It's the way many revolver dies were made. It does have the advantage of less over sizing the case near the base. I have a carbide sizer and like it.It does size the case body more than needed though. RCBs has always been considered up with the best. I have encountered a number of wrong made dies from them. I do have some older CH dies and they have been right on for me.
n.h.schmidt

[Three44s]

To the extent that neck tension affects loads in a handgun cartridge you will find your test loads different than your progressive made rounds. Brass life in revolver cartridges is governed by mouth splits and the ability to hold a bullet sufficiently pre-split.

With a cartridge such as the 44 heavy recoil resulting from heavy bullet/powder combinations are the most demanding for best neck tension and more positive crimps.

I tend to load new cases with my bear loads and everything else gets loaded down the power ladder after that first firing. Practice bear stuffers go in less used brass.

I could see a potential with the CH4 die in question for an ultimate bear stuffer on a new case but I would be cautious about working brass excessively there after and certainly across the board with all my brass.

Brass is a sizable investment with dies being a bit less.

Three44s

[Bent Ramrod]

It’s my understanding that C-H started out making dies that were as good as any on the market. Then Charles Heckman, the founder of the company, was killed in an auto accident. Whoever took the outfit over was only interested in the bottom line, making whatever could be cranked out at the highest volume and sold at the lowest price, both under the C-H brand, and for other outfits, like Herter’s.

Naturally, quality control, which costs money, was not exactly emphasized during this time period. I remember a brave reviewer in an old gun magazine writing, “Herter’s stuff might not always work the way it’s supposed to, but it sure is cheap!” He was referring to the loading dies, which were made for them by C-H at the time.

The first .32-20 die set I bought used, at a gun show, was a C-H, and it only crimped the seated boolit on one side. The company was eventually run into the ground, unable to compete even pricewise once Lee got into the reloading die business.

C-H was pretty much in a nonresponsive, vegetative state when 4-D took it over. C-H/4-D is still sort of “the low-priced spread,” but now, at least, the interiors of the dies work the way they’re supposed to.

I unloaded the C-H die set at the next gun show and bought a new Pacific Durachrome set to replace it, one of my very few new reloading equipment purchases. Back then, used .32-20 dies, and components, for that matter, were not easily found. Problem solved!

[KVO]

I appreciate all the experiences and insight. Might make for an interesting high vs low neck tension/ velocity/ accuracy experiment.

[Pressman]

Bentramrod, I like your way with words. You should write an article for the Journal.

[danmat]

I bought a set of 45 colt steel dies to remedy the loose chamber in my 92s.per members here suggestions, just started playing with it it does the same as you described leaves a bottleneck in the case. I needed to get some measuments, haven't got to it yet.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My old RCBS 357/38 plain steel die set has this two dia step. It's the way many revolver dies were made. It does have the advantage of less over sizing the case near the base. I have a carbide sizer and like it.It does size the case body more than needed though. RCBs has always been considered up with the best. I have encountered a number of wrong made dies from them. I do have some older CH dies and they have been right on for me.
n.h.schmidt

I bought a set of 45 colt steel dies to remedy the loose chamber in my 92s.per members here suggestions, just started playing with it it does the same as you described leaves a bottleneck in the case. I needed to get some measuments, haven't got to it yet.

This is interesting, because Saturday at a Gunshow, I bought a older RCBS set of 41 Mag dies with Steel sizer...the old style box with the flimsy clasp that always breaks. The appear as NEW and possibly never used. I bought them just to have a spare set of dies...Also, I have heard they typically do not size as small as a typical Carbide die...I thought that might be handy when sizing new Starline cases...they always size quite hard, so I have to lube them anyway. I'll have to test them out and do some measuring of a sized case.