38/357 Load using Lyman 358477

[osteodoc08]

I had a friend give me 2-3k 358477 Lyman boolits sized to .3585 on my micrometer and lubed with, I think, BAC, via his Star. I’ve got a ton of 38 special brass waiting to be loaded and was looking for load suggestions. I also have some 357 brass as well but typically shoot a traditional Kieth out of the 357. I’ve got most common powders and some newer cleaner burning ones like cfe pistol and BE-86. Looking mostly for solid plinking loads for my smith 15, 19, 586, Ruger BH and Marlin levers. Will be loaded on a 650 so measure friendly powders a must.

[Walks]

Great Bullet, can't help you.

This old man still uses 3.5grs of Bullseye or Titegroup for .38Spl.
And 6.5grs of Unique in .357Mag brass for my M27's and Big Blackhawks.

That .357mag load with Unique is ONLY for S&W M27/28 and Ruger NM Blackhawks, the Big ones. Not the little flattops or new vaquero's.

[txbirdman]

4 grains of 231 is my favorite in .38 Spcl

[winelover]

In my house, 38 special gets either, 4.0 grains of Bullseye or 5.0 grains of Unique with a 158 SWC. Either powder is friendly in my Uniflow or Hollywood measures. Not wimpy loads, however, my J-frames have no issues handling them.

Winelover

[Petrol & Powder]

My standard 38 Special load has changed over the years but with that basic 158 grain LSWC my current standard load is 3.5 grains of Bullseye in a 38 Special case. Bullseye meters well, is economical and yields excellent accuracy. Bullseye has a 100+ year history for a reason.
I did use CFE during the powder shortage and it performs well but not well enough for it to replace Bullseye.
For many, many years my 38 Special loads were driven by WW231 [HP-38] , typically in the 4.0 - 4.4 grain range.
All of the above powders meter well.

Unique is not one of my favorites in 38 Special because it does not meter consistently. It also seems to prefer loadings near the upper end of acceptable pressures. Unique does reside on my shelf because I do have uses for it but I don't normally use it in 38 Special.

I've loaded more 38 Special rounds than all my other cartridges put together and at one time or another I've probably tried some type of pistol/shotgun powder in a 38 Special case. There are a lot of powders that will work in 38 Special but I've never found anything that works better than Bullseye and WW231.

As for the OP's bullets, .3585" may prove to be a little fat for some guns. I have found that sizing to .357" works better in most of my S&W and Ruger revolvers. YMMV. In the past I sized my 38 Special bullets to .358" and had leading in several S&W and Ruger revolvers. Sizing to .357" eliminated the leading and improved accuracy. My advice to the OP is to load a few of those bullets first and test them before loading large numbers of them. You may find they need another pass through a sizing die.

I also used BAC lube for a time and I really like it for some applications BUT I found the old NRA 50/50 to be a better lube for 38 Special. BAC is better for storing the bullets after they are lubed but before they are loaded, so that may be a good thing for the OP.

[tazman]

I have to agree with the 3.5 grains of Bullseye load. It is the gold standard for 38 special and works well in all my 38/357 revolvers.
You cab get a little more velocity with CFE Pistol if you like warmer loads.

[Larry Gibson]

For years I was also a fan of 3.5 gr Bullseye under the 358477 in the 38 SPL. Then I pressure tested and found that 4.0 gr not only gave more uniform internal ballistics but also was actually more accurate. The velocity ES usually runs 25 - 30 fps with a 7 - 10 SD for 10 shots. The measured psi runs 16,200 +/- 200 psi. Out of my 5" barreled M15 that loads runs 860 fps with excellent accuracy.

[derek45]

that's a classic, excellent design.

the usual suspects work, Unique, win231/hp38, etc.

[Hi-Speed]

38 Special - 3.5 grs Bullseye or 4.0 grs WW231
38 Special +P - 5.6 grs Power Pistol, 5.2 grs Unique or 6.2 grs AA5

358477 works great in 357 Magnum cases as well, using Unique and 2400. I use in my Ruger 357 B/H 6.0 grs Unique (mid range loading) and 13.5 grs 2400 (Magnum level loading).

[osteodoc08]

I think I’m gonna try the 4gr-231 load. I love 231

[Petrol & Powder]

I think I’m gonna try the 4gr-231 load. I love 231

I've burned a lot of ww231 in 38 Special casings.
For standard pressure 38 Special round with a 158(ish) grain LSWC, 4.0 grains of ww231 is an excellent place to start.

I typically bump that up just a little bit to squeeze just a tad more velocity out of the cartridge and help the casing seal against the chamber walls when fired. Below 4.0 grains I would occasionally get sooty casings.

[ddixie884]

Unique does not fit your parameters, but I have burned more of it than any other under the 358477. 5gr in .38spl and 7gr in .357...................

[MT Gianni]

For a long time 5.4 gr unique from Lyman 45 was my accuracy load in 38. Current manuals show 5.0 gr is +p 38.

[Wayne Dobbs]

For years I was also a fan of 3.5 gr Bullseye under the 358477 in the 38 SPL. Then I pressure tested and found that 4.0 gr not only gave more uniform internal ballistics but also was actually more accurate. The velocity ES usually runs 25 - 30 fps with a 7 - 10 SD for 10 shots. The measured psi runs 16,200 +/- 200 psi. Out of my 5" barreled M15 that loads runs 860 fps with excellent accuracy.

What kind of pressures did you get with that 4.0 BE load, Larry?

[Norske]

I get occasional misfires/hangfires with graphite-coated double base powders unless I use WW primers. I'm thinking weaker primers don't burn off the graphite well enough.

[Petrol & Powder]

I get occasional misfires/hangfires with graphite-coated double base powders unless I use WW primers. I'm thinking weaker primers don't burn off the graphite well enough.

I would guess you have something else going on there. Those misfires are likely the result of the way the primers are being seated and not the composition of the powder. Graphite is not unique to double base powders. Most smokeless powders incorporate graphite.

[Larry Gibson]

What kind of pressures did you get with that 4.0 BE load, Larry?

Four different 10 shot tests on different days (during about a year and a half) gave 16,400 - 16,700 psi. SAAMI MAP for standard 38 SPL is 17,000 psi.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Four different 10 shot tests on different days (during about a year and a half) gave 16,400 - 16,700 psi. SAAMI MAP for standard 38 SPL is 17,000 psi.

Excellent. Thanks!

[Hi-Speed]

Four different 10 shot tests on different days (during about a year and a half) gave 16,400 - 16,700 psi. SAAMI MAP for standard 38 SPL is 17,000 psi.

Larry, what do you think the pressure would be using 158 gr cast swc, 1.455 oal, with 4.0 grs BE? Perhaps inching into +P territory?