I don't like the 9mm, but.....

[winelover]

Well said, Petrol & Powder!

Winelover

[docmagnum357]

Lots of good info here. I wasn't being facetious, lots working against the 9mm. I have managed to get consistent 10 shot, 2.25 " groups with my CZ 75, about as good as I have been able to come up with Both My Beretta PX4s do under 3" consistently, but sized nearly .358. This is with the lee 120 grain TC, powder coated. I worked up a load with the 105 round flat nose that the book says should shoot about 1350 fps, and it isn't very accurate, but it hits hard wit the big metplat. I can honestly say it does as much damage to wet targets as a good hollow point. Can't say about game because I haven't hit anything with it , yet! It ought to be poison on groundhog, even coyote sized game. Very short bearing surface, and it is a tumble lube design. I am going to try it with straight wheel weights, see what happens. Might tighten the groups up a bit. Maybe a wide metplat round flat would be better in a lot of ways. I wonder about the ultimate penetration of a 100ish grain boolit at 1300- 1400 as opposed to a heavier boolit 150 odd grains, at 1000- 1100. I am positive the faster speed would do more damage than the lower speed, heavier projectile in small game, varmints. Interesting thoughts.

[JBinMN]

I wonder about the ultimate penetration of a 100ish grain boolit at 1300- 1400 as opposed to a heavier boolit 150 odd grains, at 1000- 1100. I am positive the faster speed would do more damage than the lower speed, heavier projectile in small game, varmints. Interesting thoughts.

The load calculator used at the source link below says you are likely correct with your last sentence.

I used middle of your parameters of "1300 - 1400", and "1000 - 1100" from your post above.

Load One
Weight in grains 120
Velocity in fps 1350
Caliber in inches .356

Energy (ft-lbs) 485
Momentum 23
Taylor KO 8

Load Two

Weight in grains 150
Velocity in fps 1050
Caliber in inches .356

Energy (ft-lbs) 367
Momentum 22
Taylor KO 8

Data taken from the Energy Calculator at: https://web.archive.org/web/20170909...calc/quick.asp

[MT Gianni]

Should be a great all around load for the kinds of things a farmer needs; putting down cattle, shooting small game, killing varmints in the chicken house at night, ect.
?

Since what you are describing was done with a 22 lr for decades the 9 should work also. You seem more familiar with revolvers. A K frame 38 should do as well with somewhat more versatility including the ability to use 200 gr bullets.

[docmagnum357]

Gianni, you are right. I never have been able to shoot ANYTHING as accurately or as quickly as a K, L, or N frame S& W. I loaded 200 grain bullets in a 38 with great accuracy, as good as wadcutters. 357 will kill anything east of the Mississippi no problem. 38 wadcutters are even good for squirrel hunting. People don't believe it but you can make major power factor with a 200 grain 38 special and NON +p pressure. Just have to use 2400 or 4227. Spooky accurate, too.
Besides that, I have entered the stage of life called " old Fart". I am ornery, opinionated, and just don't like fuss and bother anymore. I could probably do anything you can do with a handgun with a 6" barrel K, L, or N frame, in 357. I concealed carried an N frame in Simply Rugged Sourdough for a long time. I think this round of head scratching has led me back to my roots. I guess I ought to trade off all my semi autos except my 1911 and get back into revolvers. Sure would be simpler.

[tazman]

No, no, no. You have to keep at least one non-1911 semi-auto around just to get your blood stirred up once in a while.
Keeping things simple always sounds good but it gets boring when there isn't anything left to figure out.
I own a number of revolvers that shoot fine. I shoot them well and I have loads for them that work really well.
If I don't have something that gives me fits once in a while, I will go buy something that I have to figure out all over again.
Then I run into having the wife ask me why I bought a gun that gives me problems. I can't tell her I need something to challenge me.

[docmagnum357]

:d:d:d:d:d

[Pops1911]

Gee, the last thing I needed was to join another forum, but I stumbled across this thread while checking various sites for some 9mm load data and could not resist piping up. In full disclosure I have not cast any bullets in many years, but I load a lot of them in various calibers.

All the talk about S&W N frames took me back many years when at one time I had them in 45 LC, 357 Mag, 44 Mag, L frame in 32 Mag, plus a couple of Pythons and for many years these were what I shot. Then one fateful day I dug a Colt Goldcup 1911 out of the safe and took it to the range, and as the saying goes” that was history.” I found that I could shoot the 1911 better than any of my revolvers and despite having to chase brass I began the transition to 1911s. All my revolvers but one Python were sold to grow my 1911 stable. For many years the 1911 was synonymous with the 45 ACP for me. Then one day a 1911 commander in 9mm followed me home. This started my love affair for the 9mm. At current count I have 8 guns in 9mm from Sig, Nighthawk, CZ, and Browning. At my age the 9mm is very pleasant to shoot which facilitates putting several 100 rounds down range per outing.

In conclusion, yes I do miss my ole revolvers, but I definitely do not regret my transition to the 9mm.

[tejano]

Once upon a time my handguns in 45 acp easily outnumbered those in 9mm, but that is no more. Now I have at least a dozen semi autos and 1 revolver in 9mm. The search accuracy in the 9mm is far more challenging.

[dverna]

For a “farmers gun”, an LEO Glock trade-in could be worth considering. Cheap, reliable, and accurate enough. And if it gets dinged up, no big deal.

I would lean towards a bullet near 125 gr. I practice with the 122 TC and carry 124 Gold Dots. For the number of times I might want to shoot something, I leave the Gold Dots in all the time. Switch to cast bullets for plinking.

[WinchesterM1]

I have over 20 pistols and rifles in 9mm. 9mm for me has replaced the 22lr I use a Mihec custom 8 cavity 135 fn for PC over 3.8 grn of bullseye. I have killed possums,coons, cats dogs and even took a deer last year with that load.

I use Mixed brass with fiochhi primers boolits sized to .358 and everyone of my guns eat it up my Cz-75 doesn’t like to eat them but it does 99.9% of the time. I’ve got it down to about $45-55 a thousand to load over the past 6 years my friends and I have shot over 87,000 of these loads, i shoot around 4-500 an evening in my own personal shooting range

[tazman]

Now you have me feeling inadequate. I only have eight 9mm handguns, one of which is a revolver.
I use 120, 125, 135, 147, and 155 grain boolits just to see what I can make work. I use a variety of powders as well.
I have a couple of pistols that are a little picky as to diameter for chambering purposes, but they have match barrels on them. The majority will eat anything.
The revolver is easiest to load for(S&W 929). You don't need to worry about working the action, so light loads are really fun in that one. Don't have to worry about overall length either due to the cylinder being so much longer than a magazine.

[docmagnum357]

WinchesterM1, that is kinda what I have in mind. Replacement for 22/ 38. At my point on the "journey" caliber doesn't matter much anymore. I just need a lot of accurate( enough) cheap ammo and a kind of universal load that will kill what needs killing and still keep me tuned up for target and defensive work.
I used to have a closet full of rifles. Switched to 5.56 / ar 15 and never looked back. it ia accurate enough, light enough, durable enough and easy to load well. I can do without the fast twist, short barrel, etc., etc, etc. but it works. I have worked up a more or less universal load with a tipped 69 grain match king that works on deer groundhogs, coyotes, sighted it at 150 yards. Weird, I know, but I never shoot over 200 yards., so a 150 yard zero is perfect. it just works. I have a rack on the 4 wheeler, and in the truck. have a good place to put it on the tractor. Want to accomplish the same with handguns.I think Winchester gets the idea.

[docmagnum357]

Sorry for the thread drift, but I had another thought.
I might be barking up the wrong tree with heavy bullets. MOMENTUM is the factor, and SD. Now, I know that a lighter bullet at higher velocity will have the same momentum at some speed as a heavier one at a lower speed. I also know the lighter one will have more DRAG with the same nose profile because of the higher velocity. It works that way in air and more so in an actual fluid, i.e. gel or meat. Since the lead is the most expensive component, might be better to go with a lighter bullet with a big fat metplat. NOW, with a lighter boolit and fatter metplat you get a lot less bearing surface and an over all length that isn't as good for feeding....
Suppose we went with a hollow base boolit mold? I know the wider the metplat, the higher the speed, the better the killing power. I am not a 100% Veral Smith acolyte, but darned it he isn't on to something. If the boolit was lengthened out due to a hollow base it would increase stability by putting more weight out front, it would very likely seal the bore much better, even if the tapered internals of a 9mm "crimped" the "skirt". Better bearing surface. I have shot 148 HB wadcutters fast enough to blow the skirt off them in 38special. We're talking a HARD boolit here for potential 9mm boolit, both as an aid to "grip" in the barrel and to help with penetration. I tried the rf 95 grain Lee tumble lube in 9mm. It hits like a truck! Problem is I never got a load at over 1300fps to group better than about 3.5". If we had similar weight and a hollow base and the resulting longer bearing surface maybe it would solve the accuracy problem? A perfect fit in the bore caused by expansion woukd surely help accuracy from gun to gun. Hollow base would be easier to work with all the different internal dimensions on 9mm brass, brand to brand. Probably be a better benefit than a bevel base. Have to be careful not to make the 'Skirt" too weak. 9mm is a lot more pressure tha a 38 wadcutter load.
has anyone tried anything like this? I am almost curious enough to have a mold cut if there isn't one out there.

[Pipejaw]

I've had 9mm dies for years as well as molds. I owned an assortment of 9mm pistols, mostly military. I had Brn Hi-Powers, S&W 39s and one 1911. Never really got into much special loading for them. A few years ago I got a FN High Power competition model. This pistol shoots very well, close to K38 accuracy win Win Target. So I thought I could do better with cast. I have used 20 different boolits, different sizers and powder. I can't get it to shoot worth a hoot with any cast boolit. I have never encountered this in over 50yrs of reloading. It's got me baffled.

I had the same problem with my hi power and found severe barrel leading. So after a really good cleaning with a lead remover and powder coating my lee 120 tc bullets that the leading was gone and it is wonderfully accurate now.

[Drm50]

That's not my problem, bores like a new dime. This pistol is the exact opposite of any other I've owned. I've got a bucket of good handguns and they all shoot better with cast once you hit on the diameter, bullet & load. You can't push them as fast but that's not a concern to me because most are for target.

[docmagnum357]

I think I figured it out, lol. Just shoot my 1911 and 625 with h&g 68 and be happy. Both are pretty accurate. Both work well, varmints to deer. A little harder to get 45 acp brass cheap anymore, but it is still out there.

[scattershot]

In your original post, you mentioned the uses for your pistol around the farm. All of those can be and have been taken care of with a .22. The 9mm is a quantum leap above that, so don’t worry about effectiveness. My favorite loads in the 9mm are either a 124 grain or 147 grain bullet over 4.0 Red Dot powder. I get 1050 fps with the 124 grain, and 950 with the 147. None of the targets I have shot with these loads have complained.

Your 1911 is an excellent choice, as well.

[ACC]

OR you could be like me. I carry an original S&W Model 59, and have for years. It will eat anything I feed it including the cheap Russian stuff. For daily care I have it loaded with Sig Saur 124 grain HP at about 1100 FPS. It will shoot into the same whole everyday at 30 meters. When I took my LTC here in San Antonio the instructor said it was a Grandpas gun for a Grandpa, although I am not a Grandpa. I had the highest qualifying score in a class of 35. But then I have a advantage. I was taught by my Grandpa to shoot with both eyes open.

ACC

[kens]

I am similar to the OP, I grew up on revolvers, and 45acp for autos.
The 9mm looks wimpy next to 45acp that I grew up on.
But that all changed when I got a little Marlin Camp 9 carbine, it accepted S&W 59 magazines.
OMG!! What a hoot to shoot. Can you say fun plinker??
With 9mm ammo the next cheapest ammo next to .22, it is a fun gun.
And, when the 9mm is shot through a carbine barrel, it grows a whole lot in power.
The carbine did the trick for me, and, if you had a pistol with properly fitting chamber/cartridge, no doubt the power and accuracy both go up at same time.