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Thread: Shiloh and c sharps shooting into the pool

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Well, whatever you are doing, keep doing it. But I don't think there is any chance that longer overlap will shoot better, so shorter will be at least as good, maybe better, probably not measurably so however.

    Do you know about Chase patches?

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    I find the finning is more a diameter problem patched or naked and the alloy temper.
    The type of throat/freebore/45 degree or funnel from the case wall into the leads. A generous chamber lets the bullet obturate more then it gets swaged back down is a major cause of finning what I see with recovered bullets.
    The amount of under lap of the bullet does not seem to effect the base edges but it does make a difference with accuracy from what I found. I think the patch gets blown off sooner when its just over the edge with a lot of bare lead showing. I tested this shooting in the shed to see the difference with no winds blowing the paper around. It makes a difference from inside 8 feet from the muzzle with bare lead showing under the base to 26-32 feet when the base is covered.

  3. #23
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    Shiloh and c sharps shooting into the pool

    We shot several rounds into the pool using less and less over lap. The les we used the better the bases kept getting. The best was with just a hair of fold over but I don’t want to try and do that. I am going to try and settle for something around half of what I have now with a .040 taller patch and see what happens. It’s yet to be seen how much of a difference the over lap will have in accuracy but in my Shiloh the less overlap I have the better the base looks. I can say that for sure after seeing the tests we did.


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  4. #24
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    Better looking bases can not be bad. THey might not be better, but they can't be worse, so definitely go for it.

    But look up a Chase patch - it uses NO fold under the bullet at all.

  5. #25
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    I have only heard of chase patch but don’t know much about it.


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  6. #26
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    I just reclaimed two 5 gallon buckets full of recovered snow bullets all of those are 10# bricks
    Attachment 248539
    But I saved some of last winters bullets I haven't taken the time to measure the results yet. Here are some with the bases fully covered and two have a chase wrapped and some with lead showing. The 6 on the left are .50-90 bullets with 1/20 alloy the base covered with the patch.
    Then some 1/19 .40/65 bullets. Row #5 are .40-65 1/20 the first two from the bottom was chase patched. Then some .45-70 with 1/16 and 1/13 alloy. I don't see a finning problem with my test rounds unless I have a over wide diameter bullet or soft wads under a bullet. Wads make a difference.
    Attachment 248538

    My snow bank shooting is over LOL........Kurt

  7. #27
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    I am using polly wads. Are you using a groove diameter chamber or a PP chamber?


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  8. #28
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    My main concern is the leading I have been getting. I thought the .080” taller patches fixed it and some groups I shot with them showed real promise. I just won a long range match with the .080” taller patches but I was still getting the leading. Not as bad as it was but it’s still there.


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  9. #29
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    i did get a tad of leading with PPBs in generous greaser chambers, but in my current PPB chamber i get zero leading. i dry wrap to about .030" past the ogive, and the double wrap of 9# fidelity covers about 1/3rd of the PPB's base. PPBs are in the loaded case .100" total. i have no current way to recover intact slicks, but i should experiment with covering less of the base and see what it does with grouping.

    curious about how you did the pool shooting and the water depth.

  10. #30
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    My other 2 rifles I get 0 leading and after we made the patches longer the leading seemed to disappear so that is encouraging. The pool is 8’ deep. I have a video of me shooting my cpa into it. I’ll see if I can upload it.


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  11. #31
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    I am using polly wads. Are you using a groove diameter chamber or a PP chamber?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

    The .50 and the .45-70 were shot with the standard Shiloh chamber. The .40's were shot with the CPA Douglas barrel that has an undersizes bore and shallow grooves but it was cut with my tight reamer that has a 4 degree/1.5 degree compound funnel type throat. No 45 degree chamber end. It will just chamber a bore diameter PP bullet.

    Those three bullets of yours are very good. That little lead exposed to a dry bore might collect on the sharp edges.
    The more tin in the mix the better the chances that the bore will pick it up. Lead is sort of a lubricant on it's own but when you add tin it is a solder and it's the tin that does the damage. Stick a nail in a pot of molten lead and see how much sticks on it then stick the nail in the pot of your 1/14 T/L alloy and see what is left on it.

    During your next casting session take a bullet you just cast, close the empty mould block and insert the bullet base first back into the mould by it's own weight and let it drop. If the cavity is round it will stop at the point where the shank meets the ogive. Take a sharp knife and scratch a mark on the bullet at the block level. This is where I hold my patch.
    I put a very small dimple where the shank meets the ogive and this is where I hold my patch. All bullets are patched identical and will have the same amount of drag in the bore.
    The photo I was testing alloy temper with different wads. Soft wads like cork or felt makes a difference with the amount of bullet obturation using the same powder charge.

    By the way! warm up the nail before sticking it in the pot

    Just passing time in the winter

    Attachment 248546 Attachment 248545
    Last edited by Lead pot; 09-20-2019 at 09:45 AM.

  12. #32
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    I am using a standard groove diameter chamber in all 3 of the rifles I shoot pp in.


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  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    I wonder if a 2-diameter PPB would be any different? There is some interesting experiments out there for anyone with time and interest to pursue them. I hope to have more time for that kind of stuff next year, but only time will tell.

    I have not been able to picture in my mind why less fold over would cause less finning and vice versa?

    All very interesting though. It is clear that each rifle is different and adjustments must be made to achieve the best accuracy from each. I sure noticed that when I change from my Shiloh .45-90 to my Hepburn .45-70. Different barrel makers and different chambers, not to mention different cartridges. In the end both shot very well once I tailored the loads to each.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

    Black powder paper patching is a journey, enjoy the ride!

  14. #34
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    Kirk, thanks for that little trick on inserting the bullet back into the mold. I suppose I oughta avoid using bare fingers to do it.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowhouse View Post
    Kirk, thanks for that little trick on inserting the bullet back into the mold. I suppose I oughta avoid using bare fingers to do it.
    yellowhouse, you can use a cold bullet. And if you scratch the mould around the base of the reversed bullet, you will have that line captured on each and every bullet thereafter. Makes it very easy to line up the patch.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy Huvius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian45662 View Post
    .
    I’ve read this post and pondered over it quite a bit over the last couple years.
    Do you have good pics of your boolit before firing?
    I’ve been dubious on the subject of nose slump and those projectiles, which have not only been propelled down a barrel but also abruptly slowed in a much more dense environment - water - look to be very well shaped.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huvius View Post
    I’ve read this post and pondered over it quite a bit over the last couple years.
    Do you have good pics of your boolit before firing?
    I’ve been dubious on the subject of nose slump and those projectiles, which have not only been propelled down a barrel but also abruptly slowed in a much more dense environment - water - look to be very well shaped.



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  18. #38
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    Very interesting!
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

    Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!

  19. #39
    Boolit Mold
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    Every time I am wrapping bullets I get to wondering why the base fold over? I ask myself I wonder what happens if there is no food over but I’ve never tried it. Has anyone tried it?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln Creek View Post
    Every time I am wrapping bullets I get to wondering why the base fold over? I ask myself I wonder what happens if there is no food over but I’ve never tried it. Has anyone tried it?
    works fine, but hard to handle. See Chase Patches - which have zero fold over, and are only 1 wrap.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check