What's a better deer rifle? .357 Magnum or 45 Long Colt?

[Tripplebeards]

If it's a gun that can take warm .45 Colt loads then it's the .45 for sure, neither is my first choice for deer.

Bingo. I’d rather at least step up to something with a muzzle velocity of 2100 to 2300 FPS like a 35 rem. I like to watch my deer go down in sight. Been there, did it, done it, with pistol caliber rifles. I don’t like long trailing with zero to little blood trails with heart & double lung shots. These calibers will definitely kill a deer it’s just how long and hard you want to look for them after the shot. I get way shorter tracking and better blood trails with broad heads. All the reading I’ve done here that no expansion is needed because a 44 cal or 45 cal diameter makes a big exit hole is complete horse pucky unless your braking back bones and or bones on the way in so they shatter and do the damage an expanding boolit would do. Otherwise a non expanding hard cast sails right though like a FMJ. I’m sure PC, GC, and close to pure lead alloy would make all the difference in the world in pistol calibers when deer hunting.

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Bingo. I’d rather at least step up to something with a muzzle velocity of 2100 to 2300 FPS like a 35 rem. I like to watch my deer go down in sight. Been there, did it, done it, with pistol caliber rifles. I don’t like long trailing with zero to little blood trails with heart & double lung shots. These calibers will definitely kill a deer it’s just how long and hard you want to look for them after the shot. I get way shorter tracking and better blood trails with broad heads. All the reading I’ve done here that no expansion is needed because a 44 cal or 45 cal diameter makes a big exit hole is complete horse pucky unless your braking back bones and or bones on the way in so they shatter and do the damage an expanding boolit would do. Otherwise a non expanding hard cast sails right though like a FMJ. I’m sure PC, GC, and close to pure lead alloy would make all the difference in the world in pistol calibers when deer hunting.

You are fortunate to live in a State that doesn't require straight walled cartridges, only, for deer hunting.

[Tripplebeards]

I do have a 450BM that I bought for IA deer hunting. Haven’t used it on deer yet though. My buddies in IA claim the factory Hornady 250 grain FTX loads drop deer like lightning. But yes, here in WI I normally use my 30-06 with hand loaded 180 grain Core Locts and use cast for anterless only and holiday hunts so if/when I get a long track with zero blood to follow from a slow, non expanding cast boolit on a meat doe I don’t have an ulcer over it.

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I do have a 450BM that I bought for IA deer hunting. Haven’t used it on deer yet though. My buddies in IA claim the factory Hornady 250 grain FTX loads drop deer like lightning. But yes, here in WI I normally use my 30-06 with hand loaded 180 grain Core Locts and use cast for anterless only and holiday hunts so if/when I get a long track with zero blood to follow from a slow, non expanding cast boolit on a meat doe I don’t have an ulcer over it.

lol, There isn't a like button on here but I cracked up over your last sentence about the ulcer.
Reminds me,after I came back from Vietnam,I bought my first deer rifle,a Rem. 700 in 30-06 and used 180 grain CoreLocts when I hunted Pa.for deer. Everybody in our camp of 7 guys had either 308's or the 0-6

[rjathon]

My favorite woods deer cartridge is the venerable 35 Remington. Bang flop. However, I often let friends and family use it and end up using my backup, a 357 lever loaded with Lil’Gun and a cast 180 gr Ranch Dog. While it does not reliably bang flop every time it gets the job done. They rarely go more than about 30 yards and if you shoot through big bones they drop where they are. Complete penetration without much meat damage is the norm. Shots are all under 75 yards and usually under 50.

At the ranges that I shoot just about any cartridge should work fine.

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Another guy that likes the Ranch Dog cast bullets huh? Me too. My go to bullet for my 45-70 Guide Gun is my cast 350 gr. Ranch Dog. So far all my deer have dropped right there or just wondered for 20 yards then fell over dead .No bones hit and complete pass throughs with lots of blood loss. Done the same with my 44 magnum rifle too with my 275 gr. WFNGC bullets. This year I am going to try and get my Marlin 1894 ,45 Colt bloodied with a 255 gr. WFN cast bullet. All my shots have been up to 90 yards from 15 yards. Guide Gun like Varget, 44 mag like Lil Gun but I am going to quite using that since it eats away at barrels ,so I hear and so far, the 45 Colt seems to like Unique the best out of all that I have tried.

[farmbif]

I want to hear more about lilgun eating rifle barrel. I have an unopened 4lb jug and have been hesitant to work up loads not wanting to cause damage to any gun. plus I have other powders that work great for now. This is one of the first times ive heard of lilgun causing damage in rifle. Most of what I have read about it are people using it in wheel guns and the gap between cylinder and barrel has something to do with it.

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I want to hear more about lilgun eating rifle barrel. I have an unopened 4lb jug and have been hesitant to work up loads not wanting to cause damage to any gun. plus I have other powders that work great for now. This is one of the first times ive heard of lilgun causing damage in rifle. Most of what I have read about it are people using it in wheel guns and the gap between cylinder and barrel has something to do with it.

Pretty much of what I have heard also but on a few occasions have run across some saying that it burns real hot and in time eats at the bore but this is just hear say, of course and comes from, you guessed it, the internet. I just know my can is about out and I won't buy anymore until I hear facts. I have a 296 load that shoots just as well.

[farmbif]

if gun shows ever come back on a regular basis and I can get a table, ill put the lilgun up for sale and put the money into 2400

[Tripplebeards]

I use lil gun in my 77/44 with a mid range book load. I’m sure I’ll never shoot it enough to ever hurt my gun.

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I use lil gun in my 77/44 with a mid range book load. I’m sure I’ll never shoot it enough to ever hurt my gun.

It was sort of depressing when I read that about Lil Gun because after many changes in components and beating my head on the wall to get my 77/44 to shoot good groups, it was only after I came up with a load using Lil Gun that I was made happy. That same load works very well in my Henry 44 magnum also. This load is all boxed up and is always set aside for deer hunting and in the field bag.

[Tripplebeards]

Yep, here’s a 21.1 grain lil gun load out of my 77/44 at 1750 FPS with 15.4 Bh alloy.



I’ve since changed to a softer alloy (7.8 BH) and to 21 grains of h110 with the same bullet. It shoots just as about as tight (.8” on average at 100 yards). It also dropped the velocity to just about 1600 FPS. So H110 definitely pushes my boolit a little slower then lil gun. I don’t really shoot the gun much anymore since imo it doesn’t have enough horsepower for instant kills on whitetails and have been working with 2100 FPS loads in my 35 Rems lately.

I acraglass bedded the 77/44, free floated the barrel, installed a trigger kit, and polished the kit up along with a few other mods till I got it to shoot. I’ve put enough lil gun through it ladder testing and it still shoots lights out. I just won’t buy anymore of that powder Now that I’ve checked my current load and realized I switched over to H110. I’ve tried lil gun in my Long gone 450BM Ruger American with very accurate results as well.

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Yep, here’s a 21.1 grain lil gun load out of my 77/44 at 1750 FPS with 15.4 Bh alloy.



I’ve since changed to a softer alloy (7.8 BH) and to 21 grains of h110 with the same bullet. It shoots just as about as tight (.8” on average at 100 yards). It also dropped the velocity to just about 1600 FPS. So H110 definitely pushes my boolit a little slower then lil gun. I don’t really shoot the gun much anymore since imo it doesn’t have enough horsepower for instant kills on whitetails and have been working with 2100 FPS loads in my 35 Rems lately.

I acraglass bedded the 77/44, free floated the barrel, installed a trigger kit, and polished the kit up along with a few other mods till I got it to shoot. I’ve put enough lil gun through it ladder testing and it still shoots lights out. I just won’t buy anymore of that powder Now that I’ve checked my current load and realized I switched over to H110. I’ve tried lil gun in my Long gone 450BM Ruger American with very accurate results as well.

I've done everything to my 77/44 that you have except glass bed the action. I think my best groups at 100 yards if I remember is 2-1.2 inches but before Lil Gun we were looking at 3-1/2 and 4 inch groups. I never tried a " J" bullet to see what it would do but I have no interest in a shiny bullet anyhow. A deer might see it coming at him and duck. Just kidding!
If only I could, a 35 Remington would be my pick of the littler. I have a nice Marlin Lever in my safe right now that I had planned to use in Canada on bear. A friend offered my a good deal on it and I was crazy to refuse and on top of that, the wife wanted it for herself.
So far the 44 on deer has done me good but if I see bad things starting to happen, I'll go back to my 45-70 in a heart beat. I know what it can do.

[Tripplebeards]

Here’s my post showing how I glassed the action...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...my-ruger-77-44

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Here’s my post showing how I glassed the action...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...my-ruger-77-44

Thanks for the link. That was a great thread. I'll be reading it again just to make sure I hit on everything.

[Mr. Crumbly]

I've never needed more than .44wcf on deer or hogs of any size, but that being said, I would never ever go with a .357, it just doesn't have the ooomph. Most of the time, the .44 boolet is caught under the hide on the offside of a large hog. On deer they punch through great. On larger than normal monster hogs, I load 240's over RL7 for same velocity as original 200 grain loads.

[Savvy Jack]

I've never needed more than .44wcf on deer or hogs of any size, but that being said, I would never ever go with a .357, it just doesn't have the ooomph. Most of the time, the .44 boolet is caught under the hide on the offside of a large hog. On deer they punch through great. On larger than normal monster hogs, I load 240's over RL7 for same velocity as original 200 grain loads.

I whole heartedly agree!

[Kosh75287]

At 100 yards or less, I'D want the .45 Colt with the "Elmer Keith" load in it, for reasons stated above (bigger hole, lotsa penetration). It won't shoot as flat as a maxed out .357, but within 100 yards, no shooter who can't hit a 6" plate 9 out of 10 times with either carbine has any business going afield.

[CTI1USNRET]

I think you are all underestimating what can be done with a pistol caliber lever action. With load development and practice I think the 45 Colt, even with factory sights, can reach out to 175 yards, maybe even 200 yards. I think it all depends on the ability to measure or estimate range. I carry a Bushnell rangefinder with me. I place a couple 10 inch gongs at random ranges, go back to my shooting spot, laser the target, check my range card and then take the shot. I'm good out to 200 yards.

[Drm50]

I have this to say about pistol caliber carbines. Unless you have no choice they are the least useful of long guns. They can be very useful 100yds and under. Shooting game at 200yds with one is not the same as shooting from a bench at known distances. A plain old 30/30 is much better and useful rifle. I’ve only killed one deer with pistol caliber carbine, 32/22 at 40yds. It’s not a question of accuracy or killing power. It’s practical range. All straight case cartridges have similar ballistics. When you have to hold 4 feet above a target shooting offhand it’s not a responsible shot.