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Thread: Shield and boolits... help

  1. #1

    Shield and boolits... help

    Hey all been awhile since I've been on, i casted up a bunch for wife's gun to shoot this weekend and some didn't go into battery. Tap the back of the slide, sometimes hard others not... then fire and do it all over again like a single shot almost.

    Looks to me like the bbl has a ridge in it but idk...

    Also some of them fired just fine, I have not measured the length of emptys yet.
    Load was 4.5 gr unique, with lyman 356402 at 120 gr, powder coated, and sized to .3565
    Barrel is .356 even.

    I have it apart now and resized a few of the sticky culprits... they fit fine now. Maybe my die wasnt adjusted properly before. But there are some weird things going on. Please see the attached pictures. Thanks for all your help in advance.
    Henry

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Provided that the case is sized properly at the base:

    Something that has happened to me before I went to all taper crimp was with a short case here or there-
    the flare didn't get rolled back in quite far enough, and that would happen.

    They didn't jam, but didn't want to go into battery without a little help either.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 09-17-2019 at 11:55 PM.
    Everyone can learn from their mistakes.
    However; it's less painful, and cheaper to learn from the mistakes of others.

    Old age and treachery will always overcome youth, and skill.

    OK folks. Enough of this idle chit chat. This ain't no retirement home.
    EVERYONE!!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  3. #3
    Ah! So your saying maybe my crimp wasnt enough for my bell right? Seems like everyone has gone to the taper crimp for autos. Least what I've read and listened to.

    What one you have? Lee ought to have a decent enough one huh? Going to need one for the 40 too I guess

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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    The way it looks that need to take lump in the case out. get a Lee Factory Crimp die . You should not have that lump.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    I have seen this with some bullet profiles sometimes after powder coating. If the bullet remotely extends into he leade the increase in dia touches and causes this.

    Second is SLIGHT more taper crimp. I DONT LIKE crimping cast but you do need to remove bell. I also do not like the LEE CRIMP for cast for same reasons. It can destroy accuracy. In and with jackets it can be a god send.

    Might just need to seat a tad deeper with the PC. I find that too. I shoot allot of cast pc for my steel plate and bowling pin matches.

    Also a cartridge tester gauge can show cases that will cause issue.

    Good luck,

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    That chamber looks suspect to me. When I get home I'll look at our two 9mm Shields for a comparison. The cartridge looks akin to a blue hatted gnome

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  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Looks like your brass has a guppy belly. Investigate why that is. See if belly matches feed ramp cutout.

    Gun may also have no throat and rifling is engaging bullet preventing return to battery.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    My 9 Shield brass does not look like that

  9. #9
    Boolit Master



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    Have ya tried a “plunk” test using barrel?

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  10. #10
    I too, thought the chamber looked funny... I've run about 5 boxes through this thing since my wife has owned it. Its been fine even with reloads cast or not in the past...

    Plunk test on other 9mm passed, so I loaded them up... the weekend came and we found out that it didn't pass in her gun. Soooo I found myself scratching my head. I'm leaning towards the bullet being seated too long... theyr seated to the depth that lyman 50th gives... and yes I know that lyman 50th doesn't list unique powder with this bullet... shame on me... that's beside the point I think.

    Yes the bulge does link to the mark in the chamber. My guess is it's from the bullet being to far out causing pressure to climb...

    So do I seat deaper (allowing pressure to climb) pound em and shoot em? (Pressure still climbs) or shoot em in a different gun

    Thanks for all the replays
    H

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    My daughters m&p shield has to be seated just right or it will not plunk and my 2.0 is almost as finicky . Loading them I needed to seat a little deeper then for most of my other 9mm pistols , you can ream the throat or seat a touch deeper , deeper raises pressure so do not hot rod them , same with some other pistols seems like sometimes quality control is out to lunch .

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I peeked inside both 9 Shields and our chambers are smooth- no ridge, no bulged brass. I'd call S&W and see what happens.

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  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I do not care for the bulge. Verify if this bulge happens with factory ammo or not. If it does it is a repair issue. If it does not it is a handload issue.

    Failure to chamber likely separate issue due to bullet rifling interaction. If factory ammo chambers likely it is just that.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Agree also with ensuring taper crimp is adequate. Case mouth over bullet should not be any significant difference compared to factory loaded round. Compare to determine if this is an issue.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by henry8734 View Post
    Ah! So your saying maybe my crimp wasnt enough for my bell right? Seems like everyone has gone to the taper crimp for autos. Least what I've read and listened to.What one you have? Lee ought to have a decent enough one huh? Going to need one for the 40 too I guess
    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    I mostly use Hornady or Lyman dies, but nobody makes bad ones.

    I use them because they don't seem to work the brass as much, so they don't wear out and split at the mouth as soon.
    The other thing is they aren't so touchy about case lengths being slightly different.

    If all your cases are exactly the same length- roll crimp is great.
    If they are different, you get a crushed/bulged case mouth, or not enough crimp depending on which length the die is set for.

    They make a taper crimp and seating die--- but I don't like doing both on one stroke, especially with a cast boolit.
    Everyone can learn from their mistakes.
    However; it's less painful, and cheaper to learn from the mistakes of others.

    Old age and treachery will always overcome youth, and skill.

    OK folks. Enough of this idle chit chat. This ain't no retirement home.
    EVERYONE!!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master



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    Concerning crimp: The 9mm requires a taper or proper FCD application. A roll crimp is NOT applicable to them.

    Maintaining proper case length is part and parcel to proper crimping and safe and proper reloading overall. Having said that, the 9mm being straight walled is generally NOT burdened by extending with firing and reloading. GENERALLY speaking trimmed once will last many firings with ability for good crimp application. (Straight walled cases in general share this) In my forty + years of reloading I do not remember requiring to trim straight walled cases more then once or maybe twice.

    Some folks say that the FCD is not case length sensitive. Bit even the FCD cannot crimp whats not there in the case of a too short case. Yes it will still crimp a too long one.

    As I mentioned above crimping with cast bullets can and does cause many issues. What or rather all you really want to do is to remove the belling or case mouth flair so feeding is not negatively effected.

    Crimping should always be done as a extra separate step. Attempting to do both can also cause a myriad of issues some not immediately apparent to crimping.

    Good luck,

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I had a Kahr 45 that wouldn't go into battery with load I had been shooting forever in my 1911. The leade aparently shorter as after I pushed the bullet back into the case a few thou's it ran fine. Something to consider.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by henry8734 View Post
    I too, thought the chamber looked funny... I've run about 5 boxes through this thing since my wife has owned it. Its been fine even with reloads cast or not in the past...

    Plunk test on other 9mm passed, so I loaded them up... the weekend came and we found out that it didn't pass in her gun. Soooo I found myself scratching my head. I'm leaning towards the bullet being seated too long... theyr seated to the depth that lyman 50th gives... and yes I know that lyman 50th doesn't list unique powder with this bullet... shame on me... that's beside the point I think.

    Yes the bulge does link to the mark in the chamber. My guess is it's from the bullet being to far out causing pressure to climb...

    So do I seat deaper (allowing pressure to climb) pound em and shoot em? (Pressure still climbs) or shoot em in a different gun

    Thanks for all the replays
    H

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Test with factory ammo and if the same thing happens contact S&W. Adjusting your reloading practices for a defect in the barrel isn't reasonable. Unless you load is hotter than factory ammo that shouldn't be happening.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check