Loading IMR 4227 under 30-30 SWC's

[Land Owner]

I just put together some GC'd, 173 grain, Lyman 311041, SWC's, in 30-30 caliber, over IMR 4227, at an expected 1,700 fps, in accordance with the Lyman No.4 Cast Bullet Handbook, which is a "small volume charge" in that case. I am wondering how powder dispersal may affect accuracy?

If the IMR 4227 is good, it offers a "mid-range" of the published charges, and 2X the opportunity to shoot more from an 8# can, notwithstanding a multitude of pistols that will also tap that can for its resource.

These rounds are only the start of accurizing multiple powder opportunities in a pair of Marlin 336's, with Win 748 being a proven contender.

[Calamity Jake]

you didn't say how much 4227 you are using, really doesn't matter as long it is a book load, but 4227 is position
sensitive so you can do one of two things, ether tip the fire arm up then bring down slowly to the fire position,or
you can add ½ to ¾ grain tuft of dacron filler to take up the air space and keep the powder back against the primer..
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT pack the case full of darcon.
In hand gun loads you won't need the dacron.

[gwpercle]

Lyman #4 shows 16.5 grains of IMR 4227 as potentially the most accurate load with this boolit in
30-30 so they must of had some decent results with it .
Whenever I'm shooting these kinds of loads I tilt the barrel up at a 45 degree , or so , level it off , aim and shoot , in theory to get the charge against the primer or to the rear of the case .
I don't like fooling with fillers so this is my nod to consistent powder location.
Truth is I really don't know if this makes any difference in groups but it sounds good and can't hurt .
All of my 30-30 cast boolit loads are with less than case filling powders like Unique , Red Dot and 700X .
Red Dot is supposed to be not sensitive to position in the case and was one reason I started using it .
Good luck with testing,
Gary

[Tom W.]

It did fairly well in my NEF 30/30, but there was something about it that I just didn't like. It's been some years back, and I haven't looked lately to see if I have any loaded rounds boxed up.
I believe that I finished up my box of powder with handgun rounds. It wasn't my favorite powder......

[Land Owner]

I have had some good results with IMR 4227 across a number of calibers and have a lot of it on hand.

OT - Interestingly, I found an IMR loading pamphlet from 1998. It shows a load of IMR 4227 for the Win 223 and a 55 gr. bullet. None of the current bullet and powder manufacturer reloading manuals show 4227 for the 223 Win. I have shot a bunch of it safely in a pair of H&R Handi-rifle 223 already, in accordance with the recipes of the 1998 pamphlet. Does that make me Off The Chart?

[BigBore45]

I use it alot for case. 7.62x39 and 308 win. 30-30 and a 70 gr cast in 223. The 7.62x39, 308w and 223 cycle ar actions aswell. Very good clean and accurate powder for cast imo. Do not like it in hand guns. Also good in 410 shotgun.

[fcvan]

I have had some good results with IMR 4227 across a number of calibers and have a lot of it on hand.

OT - Interestingly, I found an IMR loading pamphlet from 1998. It shows a load of IMR 4227 for the Win 223 and a 55 gr. bullet. None of the current bullet and powder manufacturer reloading manuals show 4227 for the 223 Win. I have shot a bunch of it safely in a pair of H&R Handi-rifle 223 already, in accordance with the recipes of the 1998 pamphlet. Does that make me Off The Chart?

I load several cartridges with 4227 and particularly .223 for cast using the loads listed in the Lyman #44 and #49th editions. I have the Lyman 55gr which takes a gas check, and an NOE 62gr rn plain base designed for PC. It works fine in aRuger Mini 14 (of course bolt guns) but not so great in the AR15s with mid length gas tubes. The pistol length gas tube works fine. If I increase powder for the AR my groups begin to open up. I plan to try a harder alloy to see if that helps. The Lyman with gas check was 1MOA with 4227. For now, the Mini and the H&R single shot love it. The 24” bbl on the H&R gives me 1MOA at 2450fps using the current alloy. Hard Cast 18 bhn May do better, we’ll see.

Btw, I have also used 4227 with some 42 and 55 gr sintered copper bullets which ran well as reduced velocity loads through AR carbines and a 7.5” pistol. After all, it doesn’t take much to kill a tin can!

[Land Owner]

OT - Thanks. I found the Lyman #44 reference on line and copied the 223 Rem portion below:

[Land Owner]

For Jake, et al - book loads (min. working up to mid-range) ONLY for ANY powder in ANY rifle and handgun ammunition I reload. I have seen some of the results of "failure" to observe safety precautions. I cherish my in tact hands, fingers, arms, eyes, face, etc. SAFETY FIRST - fun second.

[gwpercle]

I have had some good results with IMR 4227 across a number of calibers and have a lot of it on hand.

OT - Interestingly, I found an IMR loading pamphlet from 1998. It shows a load of IMR 4227 for the Win 223 and a 55 gr. bullet. None of the current bullet and powder manufacturer reloading manuals show 4227 for the 223 Win. I have shot a bunch of it safely in a pair of H&R Handi-rifle 223 already, in accordance with the recipes of the 1998 pamphlet. Does that make me Off The Chart?

Not at all . What has happened is so many new powders have come on the scene , some made just for the 223 , the older powders get left out .
This is one reason I keep my older reloading manuals , to find data for powders not listed in the new books.
Found two unopened cans of Alcan - 5 in my closet during the great powder shortage...no data in the new books but the manuals from 1970 to 1974 had plenty of data and ...I used it !

Gary