Load Development For Sharps?

[oldred]

Reading the last few posts gives ample reason why some folks don't want to mess with BP and while to some of us those things are just part of the sport and not a nuisance at all it is just too much of a hassle for others or they had just simply rather not bother and we need to respect that. While obviously folks have been polite in their replies and no one in this thread has chided anyone for not using BP we see it all the time and that's just not fair, encouraging folks to try BP is a great idea but unfortunately too many tend to take it a lot further than that! If all replies to the BP issue were as polite as has been here it would be a lot better for all concerned. I have noticed that lately on this forum at least the attitude has improved a lot and it's been a long time since we have seen anyone trying to chastise someone for not wanting to use BP in a particular caliber, I wish it was like that everywhere but unfortunately it could be a lot better on some sites.

[KCSO]

With P/P I would use a 450 bullet patched to 456 or so and seated well intothe rifling with the patch over the ogive. Let the bullet slug up into the bore. For a naked slug either will work just try and seat into the rfiling a tad.

[rfd]

i started .45-70 loading/shooting with aa5744 lyman postel greasers. a good way to start but that was too complicated and messy (bullet lube). there had to be a better way - the paper patch way! just how these guns were loaded back in their day - real black powder under patched slick bullets. all the trepidation about black powder is nonsense, it's a piece of cake. wow, this is great! i ain't never going back to them greasers, no sir-eee.

easier than a greaser black powder .45-70 load is the same cartridge but with a bore rider PPB slick. far less muss 'n' fuss with a case full load of bp, under a wad that's pushed in about .1" past the case mouth, under a bore rider dry patched slick. no OAL to be concerned about. greaser chambers with all their freebore work fine enuf. just wipe between shots (one damp patch, one dry patch) and immediately water jug the fired brass. clean up is easy peasy for both the gun (no leading, no fouling, just a few patches with oil needed, bore is always bright and shiny) and the brass (ultra-sonic, tumble, vibratory, whatever). now that the brass is fire formed, no brass working press dies needed, either. just prime, charge, wad, compress, push in the PPB. life is good.

[Boz330]

Bob was that me that showed you the brushes? Brent Danielson came up with those and he was nice enough to show me how to make them. They work great.


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Ian, yes it was and thanks.
Went to Friendship yesterday and shot the Creedmoor targets for a little practice for Oak Ridge. Going by Ace today and see if They have those washers.

Bob

[Boz330]

I would never denigrate anyone for wanting to use smokeless. At one time I felt the same way. Deer hunting was what changed me over back in the early 90s, I was looking for more of a challenge than a laser flat 264 mag. Long shots are possible on the farm I hunt on but keeping shots close with irons and BP is more satisfying. I even went the next step and have been using my home made BP for the last couple years to hunt with.
Anyway that was how I got into BPCR competition. I'm not all that good but I have fun and try to spread the word.

Bob

[Washington1331]

It all depends what your final goal is there. Are you looking for plinking, casual shooting or are you looking to get into long range competition?

For plinking: I usually recommend using a boolit and powder combination that minimizes the amount of lead and powder you're using. Lyman makes a 130 grain collar button mold that which can be used to duplicate gallery loads from the old days. You're looking at around 1500 fps muzzle velocity, so probably good out to about 100 yards.

For Casual Shooting: I usually recommend the 405 grain lee 459HB. Personally I like to stuff that over 53 grains of 3Fg black powder to simulate the old trapdoor carbine rounds. You get all the boom, and smoke without the recoil. Since you don't want to use BP you can substitute AA-5744.

For long range: I'm going to have to defer to the others. It's been too long since my last Silhouette Match. If I remember correctly I was using a Lyman 500 grain grease boolit over 70 grains of black powder. You can again substitute AA-5744 and still keep your pressures down to around 16,000 psi at 1200ish fps.

AA-5744 can be a little pricey, but it was specifically designed to fill large volumes with a small weight of powder which makes it a very good choice to avoid hang fires and accuracy issues due to powder position.

Good luck with your endeavors. If you do decide to go to the dark side with black powder (all the cool kids are doing it), I highly recommend that you stay away from pyrodex and go with real black powder. I've seen pyrodex rust a gun to hell and gone in a relatively short time even after what was considered by the owner to be a through cleaning.

[rfd]

the materials i use to make brent's bore gophers, makes 'em perfect ...

[Michael J. Spangler]

It all depends what your final goal is there. Are you looking for plinking, casual shooting or are you looking to get into long range competition?

For plinking: I usually recommend using a boolit and powder combination that minimizes the amount of lead and powder you're using. Lyman makes a 130 grain collar button mold that which can be used to duplicate gallery loads from the old days. You're looking at around 1500 fps muzzle velocity, so probably good out to about 100 yards.

For Casual Shooting: I usually recommend the 405 grain lee 459HB. Personally I like to stuff that over 53 grains of 3Fg black powder to simulate the old trapdoor carbine rounds. You get all the boom, and smoke without the recoil. Since you don't want to use BP you can substitute AA-5744.

For long range: I'm going to have to defer to the others. It's been too long since my last Silhouette Match. If I remember correctly I was using a Lyman 500 grain grease boolit over 70 grains of black powder. You can again substitute AA-5744 and still keep your pressures down to around 16,000 psi at 1200ish fps.

AA-5744 can be a little pricey, but it was specifically designed to fill large volumes with a small weight of powder which makes it a very good choice to avoid hang fires and accuracy issues due to powder position.

Good luck with your endeavors. If you do decide to go to the dark side with black powder (all the cool kids are doing it), I highly recommend that you stay away from pyrodex and go with real black powder. I've seen pyrodex rust a gun to hell and gone in a relatively short time even after what was considered by the owner to be a through cleaning.

I'm never going to see any competition in this part of the US. No ranges long enough and no interest in it as far as I can see.
I have a 500 yard range with some steel and my main goal would be to hit that consistently. I believe it's about 18"
The 200 and 300 yard steels aren't a big deal to hit. I think they're both about 12"

[rfd]

MJS - self imposed gun goals are fun and interesting, and always a challenge of sorts, which is a good thing. you would do well to begin a righteous 500 yard journey with paper patched bullets pushed by real black powder. it's not a drop dead complicated, frustrating proposition, it just takes understanding first and foremost. nor is the holy black worrisome about cleaning; it's too easy, and easier yet with a PPB bore rider. we're all now rediscovering the late 19th century principles of BP PPB cartridges that had been long lost, and how to apply them today. the bottom line is that you can easily make good cartridges right from the get-go and improve as time and shooting continues. much of the "paper patched bullet way" info can only be found in threads like this, from posts by folks who've put the time and toil in to figuring out the details. this specific info is not so prevalent in the current media, though there are a few good ones for ballpark starters. enjoy the journey and good luck.

[oldred]

I would never denigrate anyone for wanting to use smokeless. At one time I felt the same way. Deer hunting was what changed me over back in the early 90s, I was looking for more of a challenge than a laser flat 264 mag. Long shots are possible on the farm I hunt on but keeping shots close with irons and BP is more satisfying. I even went the next step and have been using my home made BP for the last couple years to hunt with.
Anyway that was how I got into BPCR competition. I'm not all that good but I have fun and try to spread the word.

Bob

Yep that's how it happens!

Also those who do denigrate or just criticize someone for wanting to use smokeless only drive folks away from BP and tend more to alienate the sport more than promote it. Personally I don't get to shoot BP nearly as much as some of the folks here because I will never be able to shoot competition for a variety of reasons but I still enjoy it all the same. Until not long ago I would never have thought I would even consider loading cartridges with BP but as I said earlier curiosity got the best of me and I got smitten with the first few rounds! Instead of criticizing folks for frowning on BP I like to get them to touch off a few rounds of 45-90 with a full load of FFG under a 500 grain bullet and watch the reactions, the "shock and awe" is just plain comical at times and while I always warn that recoil is a bit smart in the lighter rifle they most times seem quite surprised at just how powerful BP can be. The flash, boom and all that smoke has yet to fail bringing out the grins and chuckles followed by a multitude of questions, I pass on what I have learned about it but also point out there's a lot more and getting there is almost too much fun. Most everyone who has been introduced to my rifles and BP has left with a new interest and while not everyone will try it on their own they have all left with a new respect and point of view, I seriously doubt if anyone has been shamed or forcibly goaded into trying BP and I doubt anyone will.

[Boz330]

Yep that's how it happens!

Also those who do denigrate or just criticize someone for wanting to use smokeless only drive folks away from BP and tend more to alienate the sport more than promote it. Personally I don't get to shoot BP nearly as much as some of the folks here because I will never be able to shoot competition for a variety of reasons but I still enjoy it all the same. Until not long ago I would never have thought I would even consider loading cartridges with BP but as I said earlier curiosity got the best of me and I got smitten with the first few rounds! Instead of criticizing folks for frowning on BP I like to get them to touch off a few rounds of 45-90 with a full load of FFG under a 500 grain bullet and watch the reactions, the "shock and awe" is just plain comical at times and while I always warn that recoil is a bit smart in the lighter rifle they most times seem quite surprised at just how powerful BP can be. The flash, boom and all that smoke has yet to fail bringing out the grins and chuckles followed by a multitude of questions, I pass on what I have learned about it but also point out there's a lot more and getting there is almost too much fun. Most everyone who has been introduced to my rifles and BP has left with a new interest and while not everyone will try it on their own they have all left with a new respect and point of view, I seriously doubt if anyone has been shamed or forcibly goaded into trying BP and I doubt anyone will.

Ditto here.
I took a guy I fly for on the weekends to Friendship yesterday and we spent time blazing away at the Creedmoor targets. He had never used iron sights before, just scopes or barrel sights. He hit more than 50% of his shots at 500yds. He had never shot BP in a cartridge rifle before. Problem is that he makes his living on the weekends when everyone else is having fun. I'm not sure that he is hooked but he was looking up 77 Sharps rifles on his phone on the way back. He can shoot at my place anytime during the week and I've got a 300yd range. I could maybe get to 500 with the selective removal of some trees.


Bob