Load Development For Sharps?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Hello

So I have a Pedersoli Long Range Express. in 45/70 that I would like to work up a load for.

I have a Lyman 457132 and also the Lyman 457658

I hear the 457648 can be finicky and I'm better off shooting the 457132.

I was paper patching the bullets and have had accuracy results consistent with the greasers I shoot. No load development done really just picking a load from the middle of the data and shooting it.

I have a few of powders suggested for this bullet (H4198, RL7X, IMR30301, Varget) and I'm wondering If I should bother working with them or to move on to accurate 5744 which seems to be the cats meow for most of these straight walled old cartridges?
Am I wasting time loading up a bunch of test loads with these other powders or not?

Oh and I'm shooting the rifle off of bags using Pedersoli mid range Soule rear and a Lyman globe front with a post insert.

Thanks guys!

[Guy La Pourqe]

I’m no expert, but I am burning 3031 in mine and it leaves a lot of half-burned powder behind, and that is with Dacron filler. I’d go straight to 5744 before stocking up on 3031.

[Michael J. Spangler]

What weight bullet are you using?

[Boz330]

How about BP that is what the rifle was designed for in the first place. It works for thousands of shooters nation wide. I just got back from a thousand yard match where that was all that was used. The winning score was almost 400 out of a possible 500. That doesn't sound like much of handicap.

Bob

[Michael J. Spangler]

How about BP that is what the rifle was designed for in the first place. It works for thousands of shooters nation wide. I just got back from a thousand yard match where that was all that was used. The winning score was almost 400 out of a possible 500. That doesn't sound like much of handicap.

Bob

Nah I'm not going to mess with BP

[Chill Wills]

Nice try Bob! They think it is a mess - like changing diapers.

AA-5744 is a good choice but pricey.

The 45-70 is a great cartridge. It will eat most anything. Try a few.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Nice try Bob! They think it is a mess - like changing diapers.

AA-5744 is a good choice but pricey.

The 45-70 is a great cartridge. It will eat most anything. Try a few.

Hahaha. Yeah I just don’t have a desire which would make it seem like a chore I think.
I shoot a muzzleloader from time to time and have BP sitting around.
Just prefer smokeless.

[Guy La Pourqe]

Hahaha. Yeah I just don’t have a desire which would make it seem like a chore I think.
I shoot a muzzleloader from time to time and have BP sitting around.
Just prefer smokeless.

Well it sure smells like changing diapers! I dabble with The Holy Black in summer but in winter it is just too much of a pain. There are no other BPCR geeks in my neck of the woods either so it makes it kinda tough to learn the ropes. Everything I learn about it has to come from here for the most part.

[RedlegEd]

Hi Michael,
In addition to AA5744, you can also try Shooter's World Buffalo Rifle. I've used both and find no difference between the two, even using the exact same load recipes. If it's not available at your LGS, you can buy it online at Grafs & Sons. By the way, it's significantly less expensive than AA5744. Hope this helps. Ed

[Michael J. Spangler]

Hi Michael,
In addition to AA5744, you can also try Shooter's World Buffalo Rifle. I've used both and find no difference between the two, even using the exact same load recipes. If it's not available at your LGS, you can buy it online at Grafs & Sons. By the way, it's significantly less expensive than AA5744. Hope this helps. Ed

Thank you!!

I totally forgot about this stuff..... I'm going to have my LGS order some this week. He orders from Graf's on the regular.

[smithnframe]

Go with the Holy black if you want the best accuracy! If mediocrity is what you want then go with smokeless! Very easy cleanup with the BP also.
P.S. You're gonna need a blow tube!

[oldred]

Nah I'm not going to mess with BP

That was me until a couple of years ago when curiosity got the best of me and I tried a few rounds!

Seriously I understand why you don't want to mess with black because it is more trouble than smokeless despite the "easy" to clean up that so often gets thrown in with the suggestions to use it. The fact is it's dirty, messy and requires immediate through cleaning of both the rifle and the brass plus blow tubes (optional), wiping the bore between shots, etc but it's a heck of a lot of fun and well worth the effort to some of us, the "extras" are just part of the sport.

Still BP is not for everyone and I only indulge on occasion, most of my big bore shooting (45/70-90) is with Varget. I personally prefer Varget over 5744 because of the case fill and lower extreme spreads plus slightly lower pressure at a given velocity and what seems to me to be better accuracy, but that just may be me. Both Varget and 5744 leave a lot of unburned powder but again the Varget leaves little or no air space vs a half empty case for the 5744 which is important to me whether it's justified or not. As far as accuracy I don't shoot competition and only out to about 600 yards max with most of my shooting being 100 to 200 yards at my home range so the accuracy advantage of the Varget vs 5744 may be more due to my bias toward it but it sure seems to work better for me.

Give BP a try you just might be surprised!

[marlinman93]

Go with the Holy black if you want the best accuracy! If mediocrity is what you want then go with smokeless! Very easy cleanup with the BP also.
P.S. You're gonna need a blow tube!

I would agree with BP being more accurate. I would also agree that it's not that hard to clean up......after a match. But watch anyone shooting BP during a match and you'll quickly appreciate how much more work it takes to shoot well during the match. Not just the blow tube, but the wiping, and cleaning. You might not do all those steps, but the best BP shooters in the country spend a lot of time between shots to ensure every shot is as good as possible.
So shooting smokeless is a heck of a lot easier; just not as accurate.

[MT Chambers]

I'd go with real BP as well, but for anything over 300 yds. I'd go for a heavier bullet like Saeco # 745 or the std. Lyman 457125, both shoot great for me with a compressed charge of Swiss 1 1/2fg.

[Guy La Pourqe]

Why do you guys use blow tubes? Wouldn’t it be better to wipe between the shots?

[Don McDowell]

Why do you guys use blow tubes? Wouldn’t it be better to wipe between the shots?

Sometimes maybe, sometimes not. The thing with wiping, when done correctly is faster and leaves a much more consistant bore condition in all atmospheric conditions than blow tubing.
For a hunting load it's completely possible to develop a load that will maintain minute of critter accuracy for way more shots than most folks would consider to still be called "hunting" without blow tubing or wiping.

[Boz330]

Why do you guys use blow tubes? Wouldn’t it be better to wipe between the shots?

In our area the blow tube works pretty good but we have a lot of humidity. Personally I have gone to wiping, I think it is more consistent from shot to shot. I saw some home made bore pigs this past weekend that I'm going to give a try. Much faster than 1 wet and 1 dry and the guy that showed them to me won the aggregate going away.
BP is definitely easier clean up but you have to clean within a reasonable amount of time. Much of the other stuff is extra compared to smokeless but I personally enjoy the whole process so isn't that much of a chore. As far as cleaning the brass I do that regardless on my smokeless loads anyway.

Nice try Bob! They think it is a mess - like changing diapers.

AA-5744 is a good choice but pricey.

The 45-70 is a great cartridge. It will eat most anything. Try a few.

Chill, I believe that my 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps is the easiest BPC rifle I've ever worked a load up for. No wait my C-Sharps 38-55 with a Badger barrel was pretty easy with both BP and smokeless.
If you want dirty and messy The Gibbs long range ML rifle gets my nod. It takes me 3 days to get my hands clean after those LR matches. Cleaning the gun isn't bad just my hands.

Bob

[ian45662]

Bob was that me that showed you the brushes? Brent Danielson came up with those and he was nice enough to show me how to make them. They work great.


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[MT Chambers]

Sometimes the bore is too dry to just use a patch and a cleaning rod, and you need to blowtube it anyways, or use a wet patch every shot but that means 2 patches.

[marlinman93]

Bore pigs and wiping between each round is more consistent than blow tubing. Since blow tube can be different even if you do a certain number of breaths. Too many variables to be consistent.
BACO sells bore pigs that can be cleaned and reused if you don't want to make them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysyE0BI1dz4