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Thread: hang fire at the range

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master



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    I have had a couple with 17 HMR's and back in the 70's the trap club I was a member of ordered truck load of primers. That lot hand a bunch of hangfires. Some took a long time.
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I have shot the old pakistani ammo from navy arms sold loose , it would have duds , hangfires and yes they were click wait for it and then boom , also had some old reloaded 30-06 given to me by a friend , he got it 20 years before when he bought a pre 64 model 70 and the man he bought it from said it was old loads he had made a long time ago. Yes they can be more then a few seconds but I never did have anyone holding a timer , Another reason to wait when there is a click and always watch where your muzzle is .

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    pulled the trigger, felt the pin strike I'd say a real hang fire. Even more interesting when it happens in 5"/38. .....
    Fun in a 105mm gun on M60 tank too Even more fun was old stock ammo. The HE would explode as soon as it armed, about 50yd in front of the gun!

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Old 303 rounds are good for long hangfires.....I always wait ,recock,and often even a dud will fire second time.Had one where I had waited ,taken the gun down to eject,and it went off with the rifle at about a 40 deg angle ,way over the hill thats a backstop.....Sometimes you dont realise you are having short hangfires with some reduced loads.....but if you can feel the firing pin fall,then thats a hangfire..........but good practice for following thru.....,just like a musket or flintlock.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master


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    Seat the bullet to what the book says for your bullet. It should never happen again. If you seat the bullet way out like what swheeler posted you are asking for a hangfire or a see. You need the bullet neck fully filled with a bullet. It will help to get the PSI to a high enough PSI to ignite the powder.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I have had hang fires using ball powder in the 22-250 and the .358 Norma. The 22-250 went click- bang- no biggie. The .358 waited for me to loosen my grip and then planted the scope on my cheek. (Ouch!)
    Magnum primers corrected the problem in both cases. I cant imagine what caused the hang fire with 4064 powder- but voodoo happens.....

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  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy
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    this why you keep pointed down range and wait 30 secs before moving BE SAFE

  8. #28
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    yup no primer is going to sit there for 6 seconds after being hit then go off. My guess is its a gun problem. Probably when the firing pin was first hit the hammer hung up and barely hit it or what you heard was the trigger and sear snapping then the hung up firing pin still under spring tension let go 6 seconds later. Ive used cci primers for 40 years. Yup ive sure had some especially in revolvers that didn't go bang because the firing pin didn't have enough energy to pop them off but never had a hang fire because of them. Either they work or don't. Only other explanation and its really reaching is your flash hole was plugged or your powder damp and the primer only could get it to smolder and after 6 seconds it decided to go off but id say that's about as likely as getting hit by lightning 4 times in the same day in 4 different states.
    Quote Originally Posted by NSB View Post
    I've seen true hang fires before on a couple of occasions. In every case there was a delay, but it was something like a second or less. If you actually had a six second delay I'd suspect that it was the firing pin in the bolt hanging up some way. I believe that's just too long for an actual hang fire.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  9. #29
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    Take the bolt apart and make sure you don't have a broken firing pin.
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  10. #30
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    Another thing that will can cause a hang fire of this nature is debris in the case (lint, dirt, cleaning material, insects, etc. that separate/block the flash from the powder yet burn themselves from the flash. That causes the delay until the powder actually starts burning. It does happen.......
    Larry Gibson

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  11. #31
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    The only hang fires i've had was with loose powder loads in a Muzzel loader. I used the first gen style primer caps that were really weak. I would assume old powder, moisture in the powder, or not getting my boolit all the way flush with my charge was the culprit at the time. It was back in the early 80's before pyrodex pellets came to the market along with 209 primer conversions. Can remember it like yesterday. ..vaaaaaa VOOM! I'd pull your bolt apart and clean your firing pin before you do any thinging else. I had a varnished up firing pin on my CZ causing FTF's. A 15 minute polishing with 400 grit sandpaper, a dremyl, mother’s chrome polish, and re greasing fixed it. The pin was so varnished up causing it not to hit my primers hard enough.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-16-2019 at 06:21 PM.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    yup no primer is going to sit there for 6 seconds after being hit then go off. My guess is its a gun problem. Probably when the firing pin was first hit the hammer hung up and barely hit it or what you heard was the trigger and sear snapping then the hung up firing pin still under spring tension let go 6 seconds later. Ive used cci primers for 40 years. Yup ive sure had some especially in revolvers that didn't go bang because the firing pin didn't have enough energy to pop them off but never had a hang fire because of them. Either they work or don't. Only other explanation and its really reaching is your flash hole was plugged or your powder damp and the primer only could get it to smolder and after 6 seconds it decided to go off but id say that's about as likely as getting hit by lightning 4 times in the same day in 4 different states.
    Like I said try shooting some of the old Paki 303. You will know what a hang fire is. And this can also happen when ball powders are used. Win 748 and H335 in 303 Brit and 762x54r I have had some major hang fires when trying to seat the bullet out farther to get closer to the rifling. When those rounds that did not eventually fire they were taken apart. Guess what was inside the case? Large chunks of powder that had the graphite burned off and it turned the powder green and into hard chunks.

    Just because you have never had it happen it does not mean it has never had it happen to others. There are other reasons for a hang fire than just the primer.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Feeling stoopid this morning - what is a "SEE"?

    Had squib loads. No hang fires though.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    SEE=secondary explosion effect
    Look at post number 7 in the following link for more info.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...7-SEE-Big-Bang

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    You’ll probably get a better explanation from others here but I understand it to be Secondary Explosive Event. I think it only occurs when slow burning powder is reduced in an attempt to create light loads. The primer detonates, then the main charge detonates with a huge pressure spike. I may be wrong.

  16. #36
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    SEE's only happen in cannons. But people call it a SEE. What the powder manufacturers call it is a Extreme Pressure Excursion. They are but are not the same. Cannons the powder with detonate. In gun a cartridge it is a VERY fast pressure spike.

    Call Hodgdon and ask to speak to one of their Powder guys. I can not remember the name of the person that i talked to but he explained it very well. And he also said they can make it happen on command in a 243win. But that was 4-5 years ago when I talked to them the last time.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master


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    tomme boy is correct on the new terminology. The term SEE being a holdover from problems with some propellants used in artillery and naval guns (like dynamite). The term SEE was used to describe the event because it was not fully understood at the time what was actually occurring. Now that this type of event is more fully understood and what causes it (not in theory but as proven in actual tests) it has it's own name; "E.P.E."...Extreme Pressure Excursion. E.P.E. is now what it is mostly referred to by ballisticians though this type of event is still many times still referred to as an SEE by professional and laymen alike.
    Larry Gibson

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  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Had one once I think it was caused by some damp in the case as I had a couple of duds where the primer went off but the powder was just charred black in a lump, boolit just in barrel .I had sonic cleaned the cases hadn't let them dry enough.not fun at all.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I bought some old 303 once when I had a No5 carbine. It would hold about a second. Everything else looked and felt normal. I wasn't a reloader at the time and did not pull any of the ammo down.
    Last edited by Bazoo; 09-18-2019 at 03:12 PM.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master RKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Owner View Post
    Feeling stoopid this morning - what is a "SEE"?

    Had squib loads. No hang fires though.
    L.p.

    I'm glad you asked so I didn't have go. I was wondering what it was myself. Thanks.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check