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Thread: Savage 220 slug gun

  1. #41
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Glad you figured it out. I would tell to buy the Nikon. My protaffs are brighter and clearer than my Leupold vx4's. I was a Leopold fan per looks and brand recognition for years till I looked through a nikon. Its been all Nikons ever since.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    To heck with your 220, what did you shoot this morning?

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  3. #43
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    I took my Mossberg out. Didn't shoot anything. Gonna head back for an evening hunt. If I'm lucky, and since it's early, all I want is meat for the freezer.
    Pro Patria-Ne Desit Virtus

  4. #44
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    3 Beards: if you ever run out of 3M77 glue try "Barge Cement!" It makes 3M77 look like flour paste.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    3 Beards: if you ever run out of 3M77 glue try "Barge Cement!" It makes 3M77 look like flour paste.

    Randy
    I have a huge can almost full of the 3M 77 left so it will be a while. I originally bought the 3M to re stick a few jet Ski stickers back on a couple of skis that were starting to peel off so I had it laying around and I read on a few forums that shooters were spraying 3M 77 on the inside of the rings and letting it dry before they mounted their optics so I gave it a try... and boy I can tell you it sure works! Glad I found a use for my $12 unused adhesive. I plan on doing all my heavy shooters eventually. It was something I already had previously purchased and just laying around so I experimented and gave it a try...and I’m glad I did. I was afraid I could slide my optic back and forth and side to side to adjust it with the scope ring screws loose but I could with little force. IMO There’s no way my optics will ever slide loose after I 3M 77’d them.

    It takes a little TLC with the 3M since it’s a spray. I mask off the outside of the rings like I’m painting a car, give an extremely light spray to the inside and let it dry 10 minutes or so before unmasking and installing my optic. I haven’t done this with my 220 yet as I haven’t shot it since I went deer hunting in Iowa years ago but it will be done before I take it out and shoot it again. I’m pretty positive my optic slid in it. I sighted it in and when I finally pulled the trigger I hit two deer standing next to each other in the backbone when I aimed low in the heart at 50 yards and the third I gave a haircut to at 130 or so yards...all within seconds to fill a few meat tags. I’m sure my optic slid causing the raise POA. I’ve had it do the opposite with my 450 BM.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-15-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  6. #46
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    i have used the 3M77 extensively for gluing sheets of foam to aluminum panels and carpet to the floor of my Jeep. You definitely have to use some care in applying the stuff as it will get everywhere if you're not careful.

    Good Product!

    The "Barge Cement" is also a contact adhesive and it is used to glue the rubber sheet skirts to barges for protection against abrasion. It just has a higher yield strength and is more water resistant.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    Glad you figured it out. I would tell to buy the Nikon. My protaffs are brighter and clearer than my Leupold vx4's. I was a Leopold fan per looks and brand recognition for years till I looked through a nikon. Its been all Nikons ever since.
    If you’re going to buy new I concur get the Nikon . I do however scoop up older Leupold that are of Vari X vintage although I have a couple of the VX scopes I don’t buy them used . And incidentally I just got got another Leupold 36x BR today on top of a 1980-1999 vintage Remington 700 BDL Varmint Special in 222 , hopefully I’ll have it in hand by Monday of next week .
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    Oh come on now. The Nikon Prostaff is a great lower price scope on par with the Leupold VX-1, now VX-Freedom. I'm not familiar with the VX-4, but it looks like it would be about what a VX-R is now. There's no way a $150 scope is better than a $500 scope.

    That said, I would still recommend the Prostaff or Bushnell Banner as very good lower price scopes.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Oh come on now. The Nikon Prostaff is a great lower price scope on par with the Leupold VX-1, now VX-Freedom. I'm not familiar with the VX-4, but it looks like it would be about what a VX-R is now. There's no way a $150 scope is better than a $500 scope.

    That said, I would still recommend the Prostaff or Bushnell Banner as very good lower price scopes.
    I paid $1275.00 for my vx4 “vx 1v”, it’s a 4.5x14 30 mm tube with target turrets back in 2002’ brand new from mid south shooters supply and yes my cheap Pro staffs, pro staff 5’s, and Monarchs are WAY brighter and crisper. That VX four was Leupolds “best and most expensive optic” at the time. I have over two dozen leupolds from vx1 to vx4, vx1V’s and and my cheap nikons are brighter and crisper than every Leopold I own. I wouldn’t own a Bushnell if you gave it to me. I just threw a few away. A Tasco is leaps and bounds compared to a Bushnell and Simmons IMO. They are both some darkest, foggiest optics I’ve ever tried to look through and have never held zero for me...they’re Horrible.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-16-2019 at 06:42 PM.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. There is nothing wrong with my Bushnell Banner, it's just as good quality as the Nikon Prostaff. Both are on par with the Leupold VX-1, which I am a big fan. I own five of the 1-4x versions. Other than the junk they send on guns, Tasco is the only brand that continually fails me. I had a red dot on a shotgun that lasted about a year, and a scope on a muzzleloader that didn't even survive the first range trip. You obviously had different experiences. IMO anything under $150 and you are better off using open sights, the quality falls of extremely fast on optics.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Two years ago I sold a 30 mm vx111 30 mm tube, 50 mm silver 4.4x14x silver target leupold that I paid $1400 for back in 2000’. I first sent it into Leopold for repair because of how foggy it looked compared to my cheap $150 pro staff scopes. I figured it was just getting old and maybe the nitrogen seal let loose or lens needed a professional buffing? Nope leupold said that it was perfect and that is the way the lens look and said it was more bright and clear to them than most leupolds they currently offer! I’ll end up selling off the rest of them off soon and upgrading to a different brand. When I was a kid back in the early 80’s that was the scope to buy because of the “name” and it’s still an overpriced name with not a lot of updates. They remind my of the $550 reconyx trail cams I bought when they first came out. My cheap $100 Bushnell trail cams are AWESOME and crystal clear compared to the Reconyx. Once again...all your paying for is the marketing hype and name. They’re quality was top notch in the early 80’s(leupold) and they’ve never improved or updated them imo ever since and have just slid buy on their name recognition. There are so many other optics that are better quality for less money out there now. I looked through a vortex the other day that was almost as bright as my Nikons. There are WAY to many people out there that by Leupold because of the name, I was one of them, and then one day I picked a few other brands to look through at the LGS and saw the light. Literally! I stopped buying scopes because the the “name” on them about 15 years ago. I have four vx1’s as well. They are OK, but no where near as bright as any of my cheap pro staffs. Honestly, I like the looks and weight of the Leupolds better but their glass just plain sucks. My Smith will tell you the same along with the three LGS in the area. Leupold sales have been down for years for a reason. That’s why they came up with the vx1 to try and compete with the other manufacturers trying to get some sales back with a value priced optic. Some guys are just going to defend their gun, optic, truck, ect. Because they bought it, it’s theirs, there is no better, or I bought it because all my buddies have one and they are the best! I don’t care what people think and use what works best...the best that I can afford or budget for. But like you said it just my opinion and that’s what forums are for...to give opinions.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-16-2019 at 07:42 PM.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Taylor, I am voting for the scope problems also. My 870 with a Hastings rifled 12ga barrel was eating scopes like candy. A Nikon 4x lasted about 12 rounds and a 4x Leupold lasted even less. I finally put a 3x9 Kahles on it and bingo, it went to shooting nice tight groups. When I had to have the Kahles to put back on another rifle of known heavy recoil, I bought a Burris Fulfield 2x7 shotgun scope and it kept right on shooting great. That scope is now on my sons Ruger Ranch Rifle in 450 Bushmaster and it swallows 300 gr boolits without a hitch. My point is since you are a shotgun hunter already, the Burris scope is not a bank breaker and I think they are tuff as nails when it comes to holding zero. I have a friend who has one of these scopes on a 450 Marlin and he doesn't know the meaning of light loads but his rifle has held its zero for over 100 rounds of 405 gr boolits. I'm not going to bad mouth Leupold but I have had a couple come back from the service dept and they told me that it was good to go only to mount a different scope and have a lot better results.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    I have 2 Marlin 512's topped with Nikon ProStaff shotgun scopes. These are 12ga bolt action hard recoiling behemoths. I've shot just about every heavy load made and after close to 30yrs never had a problem. Nikon has been making high quality lenses for cameras, lab equipment, scopes, binoculars, spotting scopes, telescopes ect for over 100yrs. These are some of the brands they make:

    Binoculars

    Sprint IV
    Sportstar IV
    Travelite V
    Travelite VI
    Travelite EX
    Mikron
    Action VII
    Action VII Zoom
    Aculon
    Action EX
    Sporter I
    Venturer 8/10x32
    Venturer 8x42
    Prostaff 5
    Prostaff 7
    Monarch ATB
    Monarch 3
    Monarch 5
    Monarch 7
    StabilEyes
    Superior E
    Marine
    EDG II

    Spotting scopes

    Prostaff 3 16-48x60
    Prostaff 5 60
    Prostaff 5 80
    Spotter XL II WP
    Spotting Scope R/A II
    Spotting Scope 80
    Fieldscope 60mm
    Fieldscope ED78/ EDII
    Fieldscope III/EDIII
    Fieldscope ED82
    Fieldscope ED50
    Fieldscopes EDG 65 /85
    Fieldscope EDG 85 VR

    Rifle scopes

    BLACK
    Monarch 7
    Monarch 5
    Monarch 3
    Monarch
    Laser IRT
    Prostaff 5
    Encore
    Coyote Special
    Slughunter
    Inline
    Buckmaster II
    Buckmaster
    AR
    ProStaff II
    Prostaff
    Team REALTREE rimfire & pistol

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    The key is holding your optic ...or not holding....in place is what’s going to kill it as I’ve found out the hard way. Adhesive in your optic rings and bedding your bases/rings to keep it from coming loose is the key. After I had 2 optics come loose in a row Ruger told me to use a light 4x, 1x4, 2x7 because most of these low power optics are extremely light and less weight to shift back and forth during recoil. I like higher power scopes so I ended up gluing everything down with 3M 77 inside the rings, acraglassed the scope base to the action, and loctited all the scope screws. I also after all these years bought a wheeler torque wrench to put equal pressure on my screws instead of guessing. It hasn’t come loose yet...and of course my exact same brand and size replacement optic works just fine now. My 375 and 300 RUMs have WAY more recoil than any 12 gauge and I have zero issues with my Nikon Pro staff 5 3.5x14’s on them. The optic that I killed in my Ruger American 450 Bushmaster slid into the rings till one of the rings cut a slit through the front bell before I noticed it. I cold see inside the scope! No scope will survive abuse like this. Imo most optics don’t fail from recoil...they fail from someone failing to keep them from shifting in the scope rings during recoil. I killed a lot of tasco PP3 red dots the same way back in the early 90’s on my my 44 mag andacondas. Slid back, hit the rings, and that was it. I did kill a few PP3’s without any coming loose as well. There is lot of vibration going causing the internals on an optic to rattle apart when it slides loose during recoil. Especially when it comes to a halt slamming into a scope ring.

    Bottom line is what ever optic you choose bed you scope base with acraglass or loctite, loctite you’re screws, skip using rosin(it slipped on two scopes in a row on my 450 BM Ruger American) and apply 3M 77 adhesive inside the rings(I was recommended barge glue as well per above post) to make sure your optic dose not shift during recoil and Im Sure you will have zero problems in the future as long as your gun is bedded properly. A loose bedding job will cause the gun to vibrate apart as well besides shooting large groups.

    Otherwise optics are like ford VS Chevy...you can already see the rant going on above. Sorry to get off track with an optic “brand” referral.lol...apparently it opened up a can of worms. You think I called someone’s mother a name.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-17-2019 at 10:14 AM.

  15. #55
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    I like worms. I've made up my mine. Regardless, if Leupold fixes it or not. I have lost faith in it. So I will get a different one. Right now I have a vet bill. My Redbone of 13 years just passed away. Her remains are my priority now. So until I take care of Maggy, the gun will be on leave.
    Pro Patria-Ne Desit Virtus

  16. #56
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    Use the 3 screw tactical rings and you will not have the issues most have with them slipping.

    And the Banner scopes are one of the better low end scopes made. I have a 3-9x40 that has been on 5 different muzzle loaders and at least 4 shotguns and a few 22rf rifles. I have lost more scopes to my muzzle loaders than any other guns. And this banner is used to test other guns if I think the scope is giving me problems.

    Tasco scopes??? I will not even waste my time with them Maybe the older Japan made ones but never anything after that. Wasted WAY too much $$$$$$$ in time and ammo to ever think about one again.

  17. #57
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    Taylor: Sorry to hear about your dog. I was a Redbone Owner back in the 70's and they are great dogs. My dog's name was Ralph.

    Sorry for your loss.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  18. #58
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Great bear and coon dogs! Sorry for your loss.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    I m am sorry you lost your friend Maggy. Hardest part of owning a dog is saying goodbye.

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  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. There is nothing wrong with my Bushnell Banner, it's just as good quality as the Nikon Prostaff. Both are on par with the Leupold VX-1, which I am a big fan. I own five of the 1-4x versions. Other than the junk they send on guns, Tasco is the only brand that continually fails me. I had a red dot on a shotgun that lasted about a year, and a scope on a muzzleloader that didn't even survive the first range trip. You obviously had different experiences. IMO anything under $150 and you are better off using open sights, the quality falls of extremely fast on optics.
    All the new "cheap" scopes seem to be garbage. I don't trust the Simmons that came on my Knight 50cal. My price point is ProStaff. I do have a bunch of old scopes on old rifles that are still great, old Tascos, Redfields, Bushnells Weavers, even a Marlin branded scope on a 336. I can attest to the quality of those old Banners as I have had one that was old when I put it on a springer air rifle 25 years ago and it's still dead on. BTW I used stripes of duct tape on the rings to give them some traction & shim. Still very accurate all these years later I'd say 100,000+ pellets through her and those springers can kill a good magnum rifle scope.


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check