WC872 You guys made be do it, now need loads

[yeahbub]

My own experimentation has been limited to high-pressure rifle calibers, mainly with WC860 in the 7.62x54R. Even with heavy bullets and mag primers, it was impossible to avoid unburned powder in the barrel and hearing a good bit peppering the ground in front of the muzzle. What has been said about using a faster propellant as an initiator to increase pressure and temperature to get the slow stuff lit is spot-on. Also, the warning about lot-to-lot variation is correct. You'll want to check your results with a new lot, as you may need to fine-tune your load. My goal with the 7.62x54R was to get a clean, powder-free barrel and a POI/velocity the same as surplus ammo with bullets of the same weight. The initiator I used was 4759, but 4198, 5744, Reloader 7 and similar fast rifle powders will work well. It's just a matter of putting in a few grains of your chosen fast powder and filling the case with 872 so you get a compressed load. If your barrel has a lot of unburned powder in it, increase the amount of fast by a grain or less and try again. Eventually you'll get to where the amount of unburned powder in the barrel has all but disappeared, your velocities and POI are coming up and it's pretty much done. The purpose of always using a compressed load is, much as possible, to keep the powders from mixing, hence, "diluting" the ignition of the faster powder and causing inconsistent results. Extruded powders of large grain, like 5744 seem to stay put better than, say, a ball powder which is easily scattered. the experience of shooting these is that they are milder and lower in recoil than the surplus I was shooting at the time. Primers were rounded and showed no signs of excessive pressure.

Again, this is for high pressure rounds out of a strong action. I have no experience using this powder in BP rounds in weaker actions.

[brstevns]

Am I wrong in thinking that using WC872 even with a kicker in the 223 Rem should give less psi pressure then a factory load or military 5.56 round gives?

[Char-Gar]

Am I wrong in thinking that using WC872 even with a kicker in the 223 Rem should give less psi pressure then a factory load or military 5.56 round gives?

Much less pressure and much less velocity. Even with a kicker the barrel and chamber will be littered with unburned powder. When you extract a fired case and it has small dents in it, this is the cause. This powder just won't give decent result in a case as small as the 5.56 Nato.

[Char-Gar]

Am I wrong in thinking that using WC872 even with a kicker in the 223 Rem should give less psi pressure then a factory load or military 5.56 round gives?

Much less pressure and much less velocity. Even with a kicker the barrel and chamber will be littered with unburned powder. When you extract a fired case and it has small dents in it, this is the cause. This powder just won't give decent result in a case as small as the 5.56 Nato.

It takes a kicker in a 30-30 case to get a decent burn, but I would not try this power in a smaller case. In cases like the 30-40, 308, 30-06 it does not need a kicker. However in straight non-bottled neck cases like the 45-70 a kicker is required for a decent burn. The bottle neck cases seem to increase the pressure during the long burn time of WC872.

[brstevns]

Much less pressure and much less velocity. Even with a kicker the barrel and chamber will be littered with unburned powder. When you extract a fired case and it has small dents in it, this is the cause. This powder just won't give decent result in a case as small as the 5.56 Nato.

It takes a kicker in a 30-30 case to get a decent burn, but I would not try this power in a smaller case. In cases like the 30-40, 308, 30-06 it does not need a kicker. However in straight non-bottled neck cases like the 45-70 a kicker is required for a decent burn. The bottle neck cases seem to increase the pressure during the long burn time of WC872.

Have you personally tried wc872 in the 223 ?

[Char-Gar]

Have you personally tried wc872 in the 223 ?

No, I have not. I don't reload for the 223, having never had a rifle chambered for the round. I am just talking about my general experience with WC872. Go ahead and load some up, there is no way they could be dangerous, so the worse thing would be lousy accuracy and a dirty rifle.

[swheeler]

Have you personally tried wc872 in the 223 ?

I have many years ago just so I would know. I tried several of the milsurp powders available at that time not specifically designed for 5.56. All were very dirty except wc852

3-31-2005 45deg F
223 Savage M11
28.5 grs WC872
55 win sp, WSR primer
1900 fps

same as above but different powders(same day)
WC 860-28.5 gr- 2089 fps
IMR 5010 25.8 grs fills case- 1679 fps
WC 852-27.5 gr ( not flattened ball-H380 speed)-2870fps

edit add
12-26-05- +38f
223
55 bator casr
cci 400
20.0 IMR 7383-2120 fps

[brstevns]

Thanks guys that is just what I wanted to hear. Going to give it a try and see what happens.

[swheeler]

Mustang did a bunch of load work with WC860(872 first cousin) and a kicker charge in 5.56 look down 7-8 threads. You could use this data for WC872 without any pressure dangers.

[brstevns]

Mustang did a bunch of load work with WC860(872 first cousin) and a kicker charge in 5.56 look down 7-8 threads. You could use this data for WC872 without any pressure dangers.

Thanks for the information.
I have read and reread Mustang post a number of times, It kept popping up when doing a web search.
Guess I am just being overly concern since there has not been much posted about wc872 since his post.
Never have used duplex loads in my over 50 years of reloading. Then there is always that one person that just has to throw a scare into you saying you're going to blow yourself up!
Think I have the 223 covered now.
Still wondering about the 250 Savage

[swheeler]

Thanks for the information.
I have read and reread Mustang post a number of times, It kept popping up when doing a web search.
Guess I am just being overly concern since there has not been much posted about wc872 since his post.
Never have used duplex loads in my over 50 years of reloading. Then there is always that one person that just has to throw a scare into you saying you're going to blow yourself up!
Think I have the 223 covered now.
Still wondering about the 250 Savage

I would like to see chrony data for the 250. Any bullet with a case full 872 and mag primer will be safe pressure wise, heaviest bullet you can shoot will be cleanest burn.

[brstevns]

I would like to see chrony data for the 250. Any bullet with a case full 872 and mag primer will be safe pressure wise, heaviest bullet you can shoot will be cleanest burn.

Will try to do just that once everything comes together.

[swheeler]

Have fun with it, sure do miss the hey-day of surplus powders. I've got jugs put back of 872, 860, 870, T5070, T5020, 5010 and maybe a few different I've forgotten. Remember the 4895, 8208 and 4759 at $6 a pound they were quite a bargain.

[brstevns]

Those prices on 4895 still bring a tear to my eye. That was the powder I used in all my rifles.
Just opened my last pound of AA8700 has a price of 6.79 still on it.

[savage308]

I use wc872 for 338 laupa mag with 300 gr sierra bthp at 600 yds and its awsome

[Loudenboomer]

I burn up a lot of the slightly faster WC860. Love it in the .338 Lapua, 7 rem mag and 257 wby.
The 215 gr 311284 lyman seated into the lands as a compressed load works well in our 308 Winchesters.
We use Federal 215 Magnum primers in most loads when not using a kicker. When I do kick its with under bored cals. using 4198 and a std. primer. I make sure its compressed. With a kicker I get good accuracy and clean burn in the 35 Whelen and 280 gr boolets. It's ok to experiment if your careful but with cast how much savings is there really when you can burn 1/3 as much 2400 and do about the same???

[BCB]

CALIBER POWDER WEIGHT BULLET WEIGHT PRIMER CASE FILLER VELOCITY WEAPON
223 REM WC-860 27.0 LYMAN 225646 61 CCI 450 LC-89 NO T/C 14
223 REM WC-860 27.0 RCBS 22-55-SP 58 CCI 450 LC-89 NO T/C 14
270 WIN WC-860 49.0 LYMAN 280642 150 CCI 250 FEDERAL 1.0 cc GREX 2184 MOD 700
30-30 WIN WC-860 34.0 NOE 311-202-RN 205 CCI-250 REMINGTON NO T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 35.0 LEE CTL312-160-2R CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1390 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 35.0 LYMAN 311041 170 CCI 200 REMINGTON NO 1303 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 35.0 LEE C309-150F 150 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1360 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 35.0 LEE CTL312-160-2R 160 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1390 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 36.0 LEE C309-113F 122 CCI 200 REMINGTON NO 1486 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 36.0 LEE C309-150F 150 CCI 200 REMINGTON NO 1347 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 37.0 LEE C309-150F 150 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1414 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 37.5 LEE C309-150F 150 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1438 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-860 38.0 LEE C309-150F 150 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1440 T/C 14
30-30 WIN WC-872 35.0 LYMAN 311041 173 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1297 T/C 14
30-40 KRAG WC-860 39.6 NOE 311-202-RN 210 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1550 T/C ENCORE
30-40 KRAG WC-860 45.0 NOE 311-202-RN 210 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1742 T/C ENCORE
30-40 KRAG WC-860 47.0 NOE 311-202-RN 210 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1954 T/C ENCORE
30-40 KRAG WC-860 49.0 NOE 311-202-RN 210 CCI 250 GRAF NO 1979 T/C ENCORE
30-40 KRAG WC-872 49.0 NOE 311-202-RN 210 CCI 250 GRAF NO 1957 T/C ENCORE
30-40 KRAG WC-872 49.0 NOE 311-202-RN 210 CCI 250 REMINGTON NO 1854 T/C ENCORE
308 WINCHESTER WC-860 42.0 LYMAN 311041 173 CCI 250 WINCHESTER NO T/C ENCORE
445 SM WC-860 36.0 RCBS 44-240-SWC 240 CCI 350 STARLINE NO T/C 14
6.8mm WC-860 30.0 NOE 279-124-FP 128 CCI 450 SSA NO 1490 T/C 23
7-30 WATERS WC-860 36.0 LYMAN 287346 135 CCI 250 PMC NO 1541 T/C 14
7-30 WATERS WC-860 36.5 LYMAN 287346 135 CCI 250 PMC NO 1529 T/C 14
7-30 WATERS WC-860 37.0 LEE C285-130R 130 CCI 200 FEDERAL NO T/C 14


That's what I've used 860 and 872 with.

It can be quit accurate, but filthy.

Slow velocities, but sometimes that works O.K.

I've shot it with snow on the ground and after a dozen or so shots, there is a black racing stripe in front of the bench.

I have a kerosene heater and I would dump the unburnt kernels from the muzzle on top the heater and in a few seconds they would poof, make a little spark and cloud of smoke. (No "High-Ho Silver" though)

I found it to corrode my RCBS powder thrower...

Good-luck...BCB

[elmacgyver0]

Does anyone here use this powder in 50 BMG?

[Faret]

Does anyone here use this powder in 50 BMG?

Yep works fine.

[brstevns]

Going to load up some using WC872 for my 30-40 rolling block and Lyman 314299.