WC872 You guys made be do it, now need loads

[brstevns]

Been reading all the post on surplus powders. Finally decided I would save up to buy a jug of WC872
now need help with loads. Not looking for high-speed loads just safe loads.
7x57 from ruger #1
45/70 From Ruger #1
43 Spanish Remington RB
30/40 Krag Remington RB
250 Sav. Savage 110 bolt action
223 Rem. Martini Action
6.5 Arisaka

Any help !

[pworley1]

There is a good bit of data under castpics at the bottom of the page. I have shot a lot of it in most of the calibers you mentioned. What i find is that you have to treat it like black powder and use slightly compressed loads. Many calibers also work best with 2 or 3 grains of something like 4198 next to the primes to help it light. I suggest using a filler for starting loads and work up. However, I do not use any filler in any of the loads used in modern rifles. I do use about .5 inch of COW for the 43 Spanish rolling block.

[Char-Gar]

For the 30-40 I used 50 grains under any cast bullet for a slightly compressed load 1,800 to 1,900 fps depending on barrel length.

I use the same load in the 30-06 but at enough shotshell buffer on top to get the needed compression.

In the 45-70 use enough to get light compression with your bullet of choice. You will want a 2 grain kicker load of medium burnings powder to get anything close to a clean burn. I use 3031 but others of the same burning rate will do.

[brstevns]

This sounding good, what about those small cal. ?
Don't have any 3031 what about 4198, 4895 , 4350 or Reloader 7 ?

[pworley1]

I use 4198.

[brstevns]

I use 4198.

Nice to know.
would you care to share your 43 Spanish Load?

[pworley1]

I use the lyman 439186 as cast. 3-4 grains of IMR 4198 over the primer. WC872 up to the start of the shoulder. Add enough COW to make a compressed load. I use this in an Argentine rolling block.

[brstevns]

I use the lyman 439186 as cast. 3-4 grains of IMR 4198 over the primer. WC872 up to the start of the shoulder. Add enough COW to make a compressed load. I use this in an Argentine rolling block.

Have that bullet mold, will have to try it once I use up the little 5744 I have left.
How does it shoot for you grouping wise? I have to use a .440 dia. bullet

[brstevns]

I use the lyman 439186 as cast. 3-4 grains of IMR 4198 over the primer. WC872 up to the start of the shoulder. Add enough COW to make a compressed load. I use this in an Argentine rolling block.

Have you tried a load of powder to base of bullet?

[brstevns]

From what I have been finding on the web, it seems as if you can load this powder in just any cartridge, just load it to a compressed load with a heavy bullet for the cal being used?

[pworley1]

I have used the load without any filler and they shot just fine. Since I am just punching paper and getting accuracy as good with the filler as without it, I use it to be easier on the old rifle and the brass. In modern bottle necked calibers I find that no filler is necessary.

[brstevns]

I have used the load without any filler and they shot just fine. Since I am just punching paper and getting accuracy as good with the filler as without it, I use it to be easier on the old rifle and the brass. In modern bottle necked calibers I find that no filler is necessary.

My concern was if using COW etc. would it harden over time if loads were not fired right away.

[dverna]

Note the warning from the supplier.

Burn rates can vary widely from lot to lot.

Anyway, now that you have it, take load data from others with that caution in mind.

Just out of curiosity, how much are you saving with a full case of this compared to a lighter charge of a fast powder?

[nelsonted1]

I use it in a lot of calibers mostly surplus rifles. People often use either a magnum primer or as I do three to five grains of a powder like 3031 between the primer and the 872 to help it ignite. Gives me a lighter load for targets and best of all is accurate in my rifles. I am pain disabled so I can't handle too many full loads especially in my .376 Steyr which is a carbine at seven pounds or so and a wonderful rifle but the lack of wieght can produce a beast- my neckwise- so reduced loads give me rifle i can shoot. I also use a lot of red dot (promo) for the lightest rifle loads and IMR 2400 also for the lighter cast levels of the 872 and 860. There was a lot of discussion on the 872 and 860 cast loads in military rifles in the earliest days of this board. I love the stuff.
The 223 case may be too small to get enough power but you'll have to look it up because I just don't know.
In my .376 Steyr I can get enough power to hunt deer with 360-372 but I use the minimum listed 3031 for deer and get about 2200 fps. The only reason is I fould it works and have stuck with it out of inertia. I had a medium sized buck going up on his hind legs to jump a fence and blasted him. The way he landed on his side stunned me so I lowered the rifle and just stared in amazement.
Anyway, I usually use a full case in my rifles and go from there. I like the stuff and you probably will too.
Ted

[brstevns]

Was looking for a powder giving cast bullet FPS 1400 to 2000 that would fill the case, but yet give lower chamber pressure. No double charges doing this also not given peak pressure at such a early time.

[Wayne Smith]

I used a case full of it over 4gr 3031 and a Frankenstein boolit in my 1895 Steyr - and got 2300fps out of it!

[Char-Gar]

My concern was if using COW etc. would it harden over time if loads were not fired right away.

COW, coffee and other organic compounds will attract moisture and in time form a hard plug, which in a bottle neck case can send pressures through the roof when fired. That is why I use plastic shotshell buffer as a filler.

It is important when using WC872 to drop it in through a long tube or vibrate the charged case to settle/compact the powder before adding the filler or using the bullet base to compress the powder column. This powder also doesn't work well in charge weights less than 35 grains.

[brstevns]

Note the warning from the supplier.

Burn rates can vary widely from lot to lot.

Anyway, now that you have it, take load data from others with that caution in mind.

Just out of curiosity, how much are you saving with a full case of this compared to a lighter charge of a fast powder?

About half the cost per round

[brstevns]

For the 30-40 I used 50 grains under any cast bullet for a slightly compressed load 1,800 to 1,900 fps depending on barrel length.

I use the same load in the 30-06 but at enough shotshell buffer on top to get the needed compression.

In the 45-70 use enough to get light compression with your bullet of choice. You will want a 2 grain kicker load of medium burnings powder to get anything close to a clean burn. I use 3031 but others of the same burning rate will do.

What shotshell buffer do you use?

[brstevns]

After doing a lot of research it looks as if 2 to 3 gr of a kicker will work in the 223 rem and 250 savage. Found some information that a 55 gr or heavier bullet in the 223 with out kicker gives around 1700 and with kicker around 2400 fps.