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Thread: speed limit for 22lr jacket bullets?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    rockrat's Avatar
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    speed limit for 22lr jacket bullets?

    Picked up some bullets someone swaged from 22lr cases at my LGS. Wondering if they have a fps limit for my 1-12" twist 223 barrel?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Interesting question. I'd sure be curious to work 'em up and find out.

    With that slow of a twist, they should handle 3,000 or so without flying apart.
    Which is about where ya want to be anyway.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 09-11-2019 at 01:29 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Many factors......

    A lot will depend on how well the person did at making the bullets.

    Next.... quality of barrel.

    Twist rate of barrel... rather obvious, faster twist equals greater chance of blowing up bullets before the target.

    Last.... and this is just what I believe.... burn rate for the powder used. I believe a slower burning powder might be less likely to tear up a bullet then a faster powder, even at same fps.

    When everything is good with above factors bullets made from 22lr brass are as capable as factory bullets for fps and accuracy.

    It may be a bit of old info that suggested a max fps.... I don't believe there is a max any more then traditional bullets but I do believe it is possible the bullets made from brass may get better "accuracy" at a slower fps then max and there for it was the recommendation based on accuracy to shoot slower not that there was a "limit".

    I can produce pics of groups under 1/4 moa at 3450 fps with 53 grain bullets made from brass from a 223rem.... but when I shoot high volume varmint shooting I prefer around 3100 simply to keep the barrel cooler.

    Start load development same as you would factory bullets. If the bullets are any good you should have
    no problem finding an accurate load. I have found one grain of powder can make the difference between 2" groups and 1/2" groups with our brass bullets.

    Have fun, good shooting!

    BT
    Last edited by BT Sniper; 09-11-2019 at 04:04 AM.
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  4. #4
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    P.s. I shoot 12 twists for my 22 cal bullets, does very well!
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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've taken my 22LR jacketed 40 grain bullets past 4100 fps with my 1-12 twist 22-250. Rpms kill bullets, not speed. If the quality of your bullets is good, I rather doubt you could push 'em fast enough to spin 'em apart with a 1-12 223. 320k rpms is my upper limit. I bought my 22-250 just to break the 4000 fps barrier. Accuracy at that speed was poor. I found the best accuracy for me with the 40s was at about 3850 fps. 5 for 5, both tests. These were not bonded bullets.

    Last edited by supe47; 09-11-2019 at 01:43 PM.

  6. #6
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    Here was the group I was talking about...



    52 grain bullet
    CBI 12 twist 223rem
    27.0 grains of H-335 (max load work up yours)
    FPS easily approaching 3500fps

    Formed these in a set of my dies before sending to customer.

    That is 4 out of 5 inside the hole punch of a standard three ring sheet of paper!

    Swage on!

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  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy M.A.D's Avatar
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    I can confirm 58 grains in a 1-9 is safe @ 3100 fps using Winchester T22 brass ( I use T22 in my Target pistols )

  8. #8
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    I would think there is a "speed Limit"? ...of course I could be wrong.

    I do have a story, some years ago, I was gifted some Home-swaged 243 (22LR jackets) rifle bullets. I loaded them to a pet load of mine for commercial jacketed bullets, and I got massive brass fouling. I never really looked into exactly what could have happened, I assumed I just pushed them too hard.

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  9. #9
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    I think at higher fps there could be a bit more brass fouling. I've noticed this a bit too in all calibers when FPS is above 3100 or so.

    One additional factor that may have a part in our brass bullets holding together..... over annealing making the jacket too soft. Not sure but I have some 80 grain 6mm bullets I made with 17HMR brass cut down that I annealed too much. They where easily blown up in a 243AI 8 twist.

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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I all agree that RPM is the killer but that must be taken into account with calibre. Ie a 17 cal projectile can be pushed much faster to achieve the same rotational forces as a .224" projectile at a slower velocity. A .243" projectile has a larger diameter again so you will need to slow something down .
    I have had my .172" projectiles past 4300 f/s in a 1:9 barrel with no issues but I doubt the projectile would fare so well if it was a 224" projectile at same velocity and barrel twist.

    Bill

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    It makes a difference with the core. Pure lead in a rimfire case can give you a problem.
    I swaged some with 50/50 1/8" wire solder for a core and used a load of 36 grains of IMR 4320 and all I saw was vapor trails and no holes on the paper.
    They react like a Hornady SX when it's driven above 3200 fps.
    The rifle has a 1/14 ROT.

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    I havent been on in quite a while but I have run my rimfire jacketed bullets up to almost 3650fps with no problems holding together. These were 55.5g bullets through a 22-250with a 1/12 twist. This was just a test to see how far they could be pushed. From what i heard before, I didnt expect them to go that far so I had none loaded for beyond that. So I am sure I could have went faster just never found out how fast.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    I did some tests in a Rossi .223 Remington with 23" barrel and 1-12 twist rifling I made 37 Grain bullets the book loading them near book maximum of claimed 3700 f/s made groups go bad lower loads were near an inch groups but none missed the paper.
    I took the same bullets and loaded them in sabots shot them out of 1-10 twist 30-06 I am certain they exceeded 4000 f/s and shot quite well without the rifling engraving the jacket?
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  14. #14
    I'm A Honcho!

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    There are two types of reloaders:
    1) These guys just want pure speed, and to Hell with accuracy. If you are this guy, then keep the speed lower than you would for thicker copper jackets.
    2) These guys want accuracy, at any speed. Load Development to match the harmonics of your barrel is the path to that happiness. I find that typical load development for .224" bullets in the 55 to 62 grain range is somewhere between starting load, and about 2/3 of the way to max load. Faster bullets mean flatter trajectory, yes. BUT, having the bullet leave the muzzle at the instant when the barrel flex is zero is the most accurate. With my developed load for my AR 1:9 223 Rem, I am hitting 1/4" diameter bulletin board push pins at 100, 200, and 300 yards with relative ease. Could never do that at max speed/max pressure. BTW, I really like Hodgdon's BLC(2) for .224 diameter bullets. Ball powders like that one meter very precisely, and I get good repeatable velocities through the chrono. I won't advise how much of the powder I use. Get a good current reloading data book, start at the starting load, and work you way up, .1 grains at an increment. Until you find the one that is the most accurate (the group sizes will get smaller and smaller, moving around the target as the barrel flex pushes them off to the sides, and then start getting bigger again. The smallest group is at full potential for your barrel)

    Or, if you are just a speed freak, and want 4,000 fps, as they say in Brooklyn, forgetaboutit with the brass swaged bullets. The thicker copper jackets will serve you better, but you won't get accuracy at that speed.


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  15. #15
    Boolit Man ofreen's Avatar
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    I've found brass make is another variable in 1/9 and 1/7 AR barrels. Bullets made with Federal brass seems to be more reliable. In the SP1 with it's 1/12 and in the Ruger No. 1, I can push RF jacketed bullets just as fast as I can gilding metal jackets. For me, the most limiting thing about RF jacket bullets is I won't risk shooting them through a can.

  16. #16
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    Ofreen,

    Makes since the feds would work better, they are a bit thicker brass at the base.

    Swage on.

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  17. #17
    Boolit Man ofreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BT Sniper View Post
    Ofreen,
    Makes since the feds would work better, they are a bit thicker brass at the base.
    BT
    Yes, they are significantly heavier, so a core seating punch setting good for something like a CCI case will give a lot higher pressure with the typical Federal case. Something to watch for to avoid damaging a die. I find the Federal brass is more consistent when point forming too.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy

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    What about putting a light coat of alox on the .224 brass jacket. that stuff doesn't wash off. It might be just enough to keep the brass from sticking.
    Just a thought...

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