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Thread: Factory powder / primer in Remington 8x57 170gr discontinued ammo

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    8

    Factory powder / primer in Remington 8x57 170gr discontinued ammo

    I have some 170 gr Remington Express Core-Lokt SP R8MSR 8mm Mauser ammunition. I think it's been discontinued according to the website.

    A gunsmith said I can pull the .323 bullets and replace them with .318 for use in an old Mauser 88 Sporter that belonged to my Grandpa. This ammunition is supposedly loaded with a low enough charge that it works on the lower pressure action of the Mauser J/I.

    I have the puller and .318 dies, but how do I find out what type of powder and primer was loaded in these at the factory? I'd like to weigh the powder when I pull the bullet and compare the weight with my load data for safety, then reuse it. I also have some brass and extra 170 gr .318 bullets, so I could recreate the same load if I knew which powder to buy.

    (Standard load somewhere is around 42g of H4895 and CCI BR2 large rifle primers with 170g RN bullets and my spare brass is PPU brand. Around 40g for the 200gr RN bullets with everything else the same.)

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    182
    That's a little crazy for my taste. I've never seen any factory load data, and I'm quite sure that whomever told you that hasn't either. The cents in powder isn't worth your safety or life.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    968
    The commercial guys buy big lots of powder, test their performance, and adjust their charge to meet the target pressure and velocity. You can’t buy whatever that powder was.

    I’d be comfortable reusing the primed brass, but toss the unknown powder.

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    8
    So you guys are recommending I dump the powder and keep the factory primers. The factory box doesn't specify the bullet velocity which is what scares me. Same grain bullet, just different diameter, but I posted this because i felt uneasy so I'll go with new powder.

    8mm Mauser I/J (.318) max pressure is much lower than JS (.323).

    Thanks!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by carp4 View Post
    8mm Mauser I/J (.318) max pressure is much lower than JS (.323).
    I took your original post to say that you have old factory .323 ammo (high pressure) that you were going to replace the projectile with .318 and shoot in a gun that’s designed for a much lower pressure. This would be unsafe.

    If I have it backwards, then it isn’t as likely to be unsafe, but performance is not likely going to be good and your time will be better spent working up a load with a known powder and published data. Imagine that even if performance is impossibly great, you’ve got 20 rounds of fun and then no info to replicate that load so you start from nothing anyway. No upside to using a load that you know very little about, so why run the risk?

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    8
    That is correct, although I've read that .323 factory loads in the US are loaded at the lower pressure in case someone screws up and uses them on an older rifle. Like you said though, it's a load I know nothing about. I'll replace the powder. Thanks!

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    182
    I wouldn't be that concerned about the primers, but dump the powder. But going to square one by depriming and salvaging the brass would be the most prudent.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    17,369
    As mentioned, the powder factories most often use is large lots of non-canister powder (meaning we can buy it because the factory probably bought that entire lot of powder). They then work up a load with that powder using industry methods and standards. Thus it is practically impossible to determine, by pulling down the powder, what it is.

    I have tested some factory Rem-UMC 8mm with 170 gr bullets (also Winchester factory 8mm with 170 gr bullets) and they are not "high pressure" loads. They were purposely loaded down so if inadvertently fired in a .318 barreled rifle the bullet would be swaged down w/o the load developing excessive/dangerous levels of pressure. I'm not recommending that be done, just saying......

    Both factory loads were pressure tested in a Yugo VZ24 in new condition using an Oehler M43 PBL. The Rem-UMC was loaded with Remington primers (assumed) and contained 46.7 gr of extruded powder (long cut grains). The pressure ran 37,500 psi with a muzzle velocity of 2215 fps.

    I suggest, as also mentioned, you dump the powder. Since you can not buy that powder you should go with proven load data from a reliable source using an appropriate powder for the .318 bullets you have.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check