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Thread: need help with a load in .40 s&w

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    need help with a load in .40 s&w

    i have acquired in my supply some .40 cal bullets ,
    they measure .401
    weigh 135 grains
    have a rounded nose with a flat meplat
    is silver in color like winchester silver tips.
    has a cannelure
    and some what a cone shaped depression on the base.
    and a big Fstamped into the meplat

    are these frangible bullets?
    why the cannelure?
    (if i seat to it ...the finished round will be nearly a quarter inch too long
    and if i ignore the cannelure and seat to 1.135 O.A.L. then there seems
    to be too much bullet inside the case.)

    in any case how do i load these and the best i can extrapolate for a powder is 7.0 grains of "autocomp" powder.

    need some guidance from someone who shoots these.

    gonna go play golf now ...will check in later.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    no problem...i just don't know for sure what they are, or how to ask...so i dood the best i could!

    oh....and i'm not fer sure they are indeed frangibles .

    and why they'd have a cannelure when every s&w .40 bullet i ever saw had none.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    You might lay one on concrete and wack it with a 4 lb hammer this should tell you if it is frangible or not.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ioon44 View Post
    You might lay one on concrete and wack it with a 4 lb hammer this should tell you if it is frangible or not.
    that's an idea!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    okay i whacked one with a hammer and it now looks like a flower with blue plastic oozing out ...(see pix)

    now i'm thinking its some defense projectile. still yet ....a cannelure for .40 auto?....and in a place that would make the finished o.a.l.
    way too long to ever go in a magazine?
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    Last edited by mozeppa; 09-11-2019 at 10:21 AM. Reason: add

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    WOW now that looks neat!! Sure looks special purpose.
    Aaron

  7. #7
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    The "F" is for Federal. That bullet is probably some kind of defense bullet.

    Seat the bullet to your preferred OAL and taper crimp it. 7.0 grains sounds a little hot might look at other loads.

    My goto load is 5.4 gr of W231 with a 165 gr plated bullet.



    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Interesting, never a bullet like that.
    Just because a bullet has a cannelure you don't have to use it, but remember that the deeper you seat a bullet in the case the pressure will be more with the same powder charge, start low and work you way up.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy KVO's Avatar
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    Federal Guard Dog self defense ammo, it came out a few years ago, not sure if it's still available. The idea was a barrier blind expanding FMJ. I think the cannelure is there to lock the jacket to the core, not intended for crimp groove.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy KVO's Avatar
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    https://www.luckygunner.com/40-sw-13...ense-20-rounds

    Click on the "Lucky Gunner Tested" icon to see their ballistics gel test for these. (Great resource btw)

  11. #11
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    They might be meant for the 38 40 wcf instead of the 40 s&w.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    KVO nailed it. Federal Guard Dog.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    from what i've read so far else where...they are indeed federal guard dog projectiles.

    and i do now believe that the cannelure is there to keep the lead core in place until impact.
    upon impact the nose crushes (quite easily i might add) and the lead core moves forward to help aid in the bullets expansion.
    watched several videos and read several reports on their effectiveness.

    what i didn't find was reliable recipes for loading these....and those people who tried to load them mostly failed or blew their guns up.

    for me?....not worth trying to load 500 self defense rounds as i already have many in several calibers at my disposal.

    i might sell them with the above warning ....or next time i do ingot pours they will go in the pot.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    Could give 'em a try in 10mm. Might be a real barn burner with the extra powder behind it.

  15. #15
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    They blew their guns up because they tried to load these bullets? Why would that be? How did those who tried to load them fail? Without any details, this sounds a little absurd to me.

    There is no shortage of 40SW loads for 135 gr jacketed bullets. I mean, there can only be about 40 published loads online alone, using Solo 1000, Nitro 100, AA 5, AA 7, N320, N340, WST, AutoComp...and the list goes on. There's no need to extrapolate anything...just use any of the dozens of published loads for 135 gr bullets starting at the low end of the velocity spectrum. What exactly is the problem or the concern? Federal pushes these to 1,200 fps near as I can glean from online retail of the ammo itself; there are at least 14 published loads from Hodgdon alone in that general ranges for jacketed bullets weighing 135 gr--14 different propellants none of which are the 8 I mentioned already. No need to be too concerned with what they are marketed for--they'll most certainly punch holes in paper, soda cans and pumpkins, too. I personally would load them in 10mm and shoot pumpkins with them...but I most definitely wouldn't waste my time trying to sell them.
    If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner. T Bankhead

  16. #16
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    You have discovered what they are.

    Yes they are a defensive bullet for where a HP is either disallowed or maybe illegal.

    Yes Federal but there are others too.

    I have used them and I do like them. Different folks sell them. One that comes to mind is american reloading they have “pulled” bullets of all kinds of styles. From time to time. Ya gotta watch tonsee what they might get.

    If indeed you would like to sell please PM me. Otherwise load shoot and enjoy. I have never had any issue with shooting them.

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo Boy View Post
    They blew their guns up because they tried to load these bullets? Why would that be? How did those who tried to load them fail? Without any details, this sounds a little absurd to me.

    There is no shortage of 40SW loads for 135 gr jacketed bullets. I mean, there can only be about 40 published loads online alone, using Solo 1000, Nitro 100, AA 5, AA 7, N320, N340, WST, AutoComp...and the list goes on. There's no need to extrapolate anything...just use any of the dozens of published loads for 135 gr bullets starting at the low end of the velocity spectrum. What exactly is the problem or the concern? Federal pushes these to 1,200 fps near as I can glean from online retail of the ammo itself; there are at least 14 published loads from Hodgdon alone in that general ranges for jacketed bullets weighing 135 gr--14 different propellants none of which are the 8 I mentioned already. No need to be too concerned with what they are marketed for--they'll most certainly punch holes in paper, soda cans and pumpkins, too. I personally would load them in 10mm and shoot pumpkins with them...but I most definitely wouldn't waste my time trying to sell them.
    may sound absurd....i thought so too...however....i only quoted what i found.
    oh... and don't ask me to prove it. i've long since found what i quoted while surfing the net, so i don't even remember where exactly i read that.
    but i do remember 2 things. one guy had what he called a tupperware gun , don't know if it was glock or some other knock off...his blew apart in his hand and was injured...the other guy was luckier he had a steel gun ruined the barrel and the internals.

    don't know anything about how they were loaded...whether he doubled charged or did a wrong o.a.l. .....i have since found out that the "crimp groove " is not for crimping ...it's for holding the driving lead inside in place until impact.

    i may work them up.
    Last edited by mozeppa; 09-24-2019 at 01:45 PM. Reason: spelling

  18. #18
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    I made a post awhile back but I was given a warning by "osteodoc08' concerning my less than cordial wording. But I feel this is important when one posts about reloading data without giving as much information as they can when asking.
    These bullets look like they have a blue substance which probably isn't lead. Maybe some of the core is lead, I don't know. If it is not lead that means the density of the bullet changes. If the density is lighter material the bullet has to be made longer to get the same weight as a lead core bullet. If the longer bullet, because of the less dense material is loaded to the same OAL as the lead core, more dense bullet, then more extends into the case. This means that for the same given weight the powder capacity is less. This means higher chamber pressure with a given load most of the time. I am sure there are exceptions, but who know what the exceptions are?
    Seating depth of the bullet in the case is very important especially in smaller capacity cases. This is something to remember in asking for data. Also all one has to do is look at loading data for ammo loaded with all copper bullets verses lead core bullets of the same shape loaded to the same OAL. One of the reasons for multiple grooves in some copper bullets if to reduce resistance so the charges can be more in line with the lead core bullets but it is only a partial fix not a complete fix.
    All data for a 135 grain bullet is not the same. Sometimes it differs even with lead core bullets because of the external shape altering the length slightly.
    I hope me taking time to repost a more cordial answer is a help.
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 09-25-2019 at 02:12 PM.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozeppa View Post
    may sound absurd....i thought so too...however....i only quoted what i found.
    oh... and don't ask me to prove it. i've long since found what i quoted while surfing the net, so i don't even remember where exactly i read that.
    but i do remember 2 things. one guy had what he called a tupperware gun , don't know if it was glock or some other knock off...his blew apart in his hand and was injured...the other guy was luckier he had a steel gun ruined the barrel and the internals.

    don't know anything about how they were loaded...whether he doubled charged or did a wrong o.a.l. .....i have since found out that the "crimp groove " is not for crimping ...it's for holding the driving lead inside in place until impact.

    i may work them up.
    I would assume if an auto pistol blows up it is due to a squib, an overcharge or too short of cartridge designed length, drastically increasing pressures. I can see how someone could confuse a cannalure with this internal crimp.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  20. #20
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    Of all the cartridges you can reload the .40 S&W is one of the most finicky. It runs at 35,000 psi and small changes or errors in assembly can result in vicious Pressure Spikes.

    This is NOT a Cartridge to Hotrod. You don't need it, and if you think you do, you can but a box of high performance Factory Loaded Ammo for whatever purpose you think you need the extra power for,,, and avoid blowing yourself up.

    You need to start low, and stay low on your loads, and you'll be fine.

    My .02

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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