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Thread: Cast bullet for 44 mag

  1. #21
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hc18flyer View Post
    Larry- Why the 20-1 vs a similar hardness alloy of tin and antimony? Thanks, hc18flyer
    As mentioned, the binary alloy of lead/tin is preferred because it expands more readily at lower impact velocity and retains weight during expansion regardless of a similar BHN. The "hardness" of a cast bullet is almost always measured by BHN but that is only half of the equation. The other half is malleability of the alloy. Any antimony (the element that creates most of the "hardness/higher BHN) results in a more brittle alloy that when it expands has a tendency to slough off the expansion petals or fragment/shatter.

    At above 1700 fps muzzle velocity is do use a ternary alloy in my cast HPs (mostly rifle cartridges) of 97/1.5/1.5. That alloy will expand down to 1500 +/- fps impact velocity w/o fragmenting/shattering, if HP'd correctly. However, that is outside the velocity capability of the 44 Magnum in most handguns. Thus I use the binary alloy for use in my revolvers and Contender.
    Larry Gibson

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  2. #22
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    DougGuy

    With the mass of that 310 gr bullet and the large meplat your 50/50 + 2% no doubt will expand somewhat (perhaps "rivet" might be a better term?) if it impacts any substantial part of a deer given the velocity. Sans the HP I doubt it would shatter. An excellent alternative to basically get the same results......
    Larry Gibson

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  3. #23
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    I can't handle full power 44 magnum (yet), and I honestly think most people can not either. Many shooters on this site can, but you have to be honest with yourself. Sometimes I can shoot a decent group with 21.5 grains H110 and a Lee 310 grain, usually I start tensing up before I get to the 6th shot. I've become a big fan of 20-1 alloy, I understand why it used to be considerd the most universal alloy there was. Here is what I worked up for my dad to hunt with this year. Fed LP, 13 grains Bluedot, NOE H&G #503 clone with large hollow point cast of 20-1 alloy, 1.690" OAL. As I understand it, 2400 powder can be reduced as well. I ran 8-10.5 grains Unique, nothing shot all that spectacular. I'd guess my load must be running ballpark 1100 fps, and with the 255 grain HP, it's not too bad.

    Shot at 50 yards in my 5.5" Redhawk. 2.5" CTC
    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #24
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    Larry sure casts some handsome boolets. And I concur with his assessment. If I only had one 44 magnum mold that would be it. Cycles in leverguns. Good ballistic coefficient. Design hits the forcing cone or leade well for maximum accuracy potential. And 20:1 GC,d is going to expand if impact velocity is 1300 or so.

    PM Miha at MP Molds. He doesn’t have them on the website but last I checked he had 20x4 cavity HP molds in stock.
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  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I’m using softer alloy at 7.5 BH this year with clear PC and GC’d devastators out of my Ruger 77/44 with a muzzle velocity of 1750fps. I’m expecting total devastation.



    I tried 15.4 BH last year with the same boolit and velocity and they never expanded when shot through three whitetails last season. All were complete pass throughs.



    Here’s a 7.5 BH that left my barrel at 1750 FPS that I recovered from a dirt backstop at 25 yards. The 16:1 pewter and lead flooring mix held together nicely. My load shoots sub MOA at 100 yards.

    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-11-2019 at 09:14 PM.

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy Fenring's Avatar
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    That load is fair cookin'.

  7. #27
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    Elmer's bullet and a heavy charge of 2400 of course!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I can't handle full power 44 magnum (yet), and I honestly think most people can not either. Many shooters on this site can, but you have to be honest with yourself. Sometimes I can shoot a decent group with 21.5 grains H110 and a Lee 310 grain, usually I start tensing up before I get to the 6th shot. I've become a big fan of 20-1 alloy, I understand why it used to be considerd the most universal alloy there was. Here is what I worked up for my dad to hunt with this year. Fed LP, 13 grains Bluedot, NOE H&G #503 clone with large hollow point cast of 20-1 alloy, 1.690" OAL. As I understand it, 2400 powder can be reduced as well. I ran 8-10.5 grains Unique, nothing shot all that spectacular. I'd guess my load must be running ballpark 1100 fps, and with the 255 grain HP, it's not too bad.

    Shot at 50 yards in my 5.5" Redhawk. 2.5" CTC
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I completely agree. I can handle full power .44 Mag, but I had to slowly work my way up to it. Now having said that, I mostly use the Lyman 429421, and mine casts at 268grs, and I honestly haven't noticed much difference at all between driving it at 1,100 from my 5.5" SBH and 1500fps from my Contender, other than trajectory. So while I don't regret putting in the work to learn to handle it, I also don't think that a hunter is handicapped by using less than max loads. At least the few deer and many hogs I have put in the freezer didn't complain, or show much difference during autopsy.
    I passed my last psych eval, how bout you?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    ... I tried 15.4 BH last year with the same boolit and velocity and they never expanded when shot through three whitetails last season. All were complete pass throughs... ]
    If you had complete penetration, how do you know you had no expansion?

    Personally, I want complete pass through. If I get some expansion while that happens, great. But I want holes at both ends of the bullet line.

    Kevin
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  10. #30
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    ARSENAL KEITH H&G #503 Mold

    Clear Coated with smokes powder coat







    .


    NRA LIFE Member

    USPSA/IPSC

  11. #31
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    I favor the Lyman #429421 and #429244GC
    But we haven't been able to legally hunt with Cast Bullets in a lot of years in CA. Long before the prohibition again Lead based jacketed bullets.

    But I'll tell you the old Lee #429-208-WC over a good charge of Unique in .44Spl or .44Mag cases would tumble the big Mohave Jacks toukas over teakettle.
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  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawHat View Post
    If you had complete penetration, how do you know you had no expansion?

    Personally, I want complete pass through. If I get some expansion while that happens, great. But I want holes at both ends of the bullet line.

    Kevin
    I have exit pics posted on this forum of it...From two different deer. I measured the exit holes in the hides. They were the exact same diameter as the boolits. Perfect round boolit sized diameter exit holes.

    Here I found the post, enjoy...

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...my-devastators!!!

  13. #33
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    If the petals all sheared off, what is left is “bullet dia”.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rking22 View Post
    If the petals all sheared off, what is left is “bullet dia”.
    I water tested the boolits...there is no pedal shear off just mushroom action. The alloy is extremely malleable with 16% pewter so it doesn’t shatter, fragment, or shear off pedals.

    Here’s the same alloy at 1875 FPS after a water test in water filled totes. It’s 16% pewter added to an 80/20 mix of ccoww and pure. I never had any shearing in any of the books tests with this alloy. It just flows backwards. It is way to hard of an alloy for thin skinned game to expand. It would be a great Cape buffalo boolit.


  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I can't handle full power 44 magnum (yet), and I honestly think most people can not either. Many shooters on this site can, but you have to be honest with yourself. Sometimes I can shoot a decent group with 21.5 grains H110 and a Lee 310 grain, usually I start tensing up before I get to the 6th shot. I've become a big fan of 20-1 alloy, I understand why it used to be considerd the most universal alloy there was. Here is what I worked up for my dad to hunt with this year. Fed LP, 13 grains Bluedot, NOE H&G #503 clone with large hollow point cast of 20-1 alloy, 1.690" OAL. As I understand it, 2400 powder can be reduced as well. I ran 8-10.5 grains Unique, nothing shot all that spectacular. I'd guess my load must be running ballpark 1100 fps, and with the 255 grain HP, it's not too bad.

    Shot at 50 yards in my 5.5" Redhawk. 2.5" CTC
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	keithbluedot.jpg 
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    Hey, there are a lot of us that either had to transition towards full power or simply did not make it there. But we are all individuals and our bodies are not built the same nor is our mental state identical. Our life experiences are different as well.

    There are no bragging rights, it’s just the way things are!

    I shoot a lot of different power levels in my 44’s but one stands out as a truly great one that is a published load in Hodgdon’s #26.

    I like the RCBS 250K so much I bought a NOE mold of similar construction. With that boolit I use a Federal magnum primer and 11.8 gr of HS6 powder. My Mountain Gun generates 1066 FPS with it’s 4” barrel with a SD of just 7 FPS and 1176 FPS (15 fps SD) from my 7.5” Redhawk.

    The pressure for a 250 gr lead boolit is listed at 24,000 psi with a 12 gr charge and that is right in the “wheel house” according to Richard Lee in his load manual with regards to general lead alloy strength.

    My evidence is antidotal, but I believe that there is a difference in dwell time as well. I base this on my work with 800x and HS6 concurrently. After working up both powders I then loaded 3 of each load and alternated chambers ie. a 800x then a HS6 and then back to 800x until the cylinder was full. The difference in felt recoil was quite evident in my Mountain Gun with the impulse from HS6 winning hands down.

    Three44s
    Last edited by Three44s; 09-16-2019 at 09:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Out of curiosity, what is the remaking weight of that bullet after expansion in water? I am considering getting that bullet for a possible “new” 629 hunter.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    I favor the Lyman #429421 and #429244GC
    But we haven't been able to legally hunt with Cast Bullets in a lot of years in CA. Long before the prohibition again Lead based jacketed bullets.

    But I'll tell you the old Lee #429-208-WC over a good charge of Unique in .44Spl or .44Mag cases would tumble the big Mohave Jacks toukas over teakettle.
    Sadly, lead based jacketed already became illegal 07/01/19. I am waiting for home company to introduce bismuth copper jacketed but it seems lathe turned copper is leading the pack. The whole thing is stupid in my opinion as lead comes from the earth and there doesn’t seem to be issues from areas where it is mined. The problem of course is junk science to support an agenda of limiting sportsmen/women and we all know why
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  18. #38
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    If you spend any time reading about Elmer Keith's favorite load, you will find a lot about a 240-250 grain cast bullet of his design and 22gr of 2400 powder. Since Elmer died, 2400 has been changed to make it burn cleaner with less ash. The new max powder charge is 20gr of 2400. The velocity matches the 22gr charge of "old 2400".

  19. #39
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    Back in the day of IHMSA Silhouette,
    I had been using the old Keith 429421 bullet and 22gr Old 2400Load to good effect.
    Very accurate, and always took down the rams.
    Later went down to the 20.5 2400 with the newer powder.
    BUT, I did find that on a HOT day, got increased pressure from the 2400.
    Recall the 2400 is a Double Base powder.
    Went to 24 gr of Single Base IMR 4227 under the 429421 Keith bullet, got same or higher velocity, and No more
    pressure issues on a Hot day. And still exlt accuracy and knockdown
    That is also my deer hunt load
    beltfed/arnie

  20. #40
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    Oh, The velocity for the 24 gr 4227 under the 429421 Keith bullet in
    my Smith 29 is 1330fps.
    beltfed/arnie

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check