Heavier bullet for 45 Colt?

[Naphtali]

I have 45 Colt revolvers and rifle. Because the revolvers have a "standard length" cylinder, maximum overall cartridge length is 1.610 inches. Here's where the situation becomes interesting. My revolvers are Freedom Arms Model 97s, and they are rated by Freedom Arms as being as strong as older model Ruger Blackhawks. Without excessive detail, the rifle is probably more highly rated than that.

Presently, the full power hunting ammunition includes Saeco's .452-inch SWC-GC. I seek a heavier bullet that will retain pretty much the powder capacity that remains when the Saeco bullet is loaded. I had a chat - finally used my common sense - with John at Freedom about the efficacy of loading Lyman's #452651 325-grain bullet. No-go. The bullet is too long.

I don't believe I can squeeze out much addition weight above 300 grains. I hoping that there is a bullet design that inherently would be heavier at the same length as Saeco's. Rather than asking about bullets, I'm asking about what cast bullet design, excluding totally cylindrical or wadcutter shape, inherently has the heaviest weight for its length? I suspect it might be either some form of truncated point as WFN-GC or perhaps a RNFP-GC? Once I know from where to start, I'll confirm a weight benefit compared with my Saeco or confirm no significant benefit. For me, the go/no-go weight is 15 grains. Doesn't sound like much, but it's enough.

Best result would be a heavier bullet that is offered commercially and is available by way of commercial bullet mold. Were that not the result, I request help to find a desirable result - a commercially cast bullet, or a commercially standard bullet mold, or a bullet mold from a custom maker where my solution has been in his existing patterns.

[DougGuy]

The heavier boolits are longer simply a necessity at that weight, however they require more spin to stabilize than a shorter lighter boolit, so your powder capacity is reduced by boolit length, limiting velocity, which in turn limits stability. You reach a point of diminishing return VERY quickly at 1.610" COA.

You also cannot compensate for the reduced powder capacity by using a faster burning powder which would require less powder, as pressures top out before you will achieve enough velocity for the heavy boolit to be stable and accurate.

A 260-280gr boolit running 1200fps at the muzzle will kill ANYTHING on the North American continent with plenty of authority, placed correctly on the vitals. I don't see the gain in loading a heavier boolit, since you are not likely to recover the 260gr boolit in a game animal, the extra energy of the heavier boolit is wasted by the boolit passing through.

Edit: By heavy, I mean 300+gr boolits. The 295gr posted by Ed below may very well represent the apex of the curve for the COA you have to work with.

[Outpost75]

In my Rugers I use the Accurate 45-290H. Pressure test data below from Larry Gibson:

Attachment 247916Attachment 247917

Notes from Larry Gibson:

45 Colt Ruger Level w/45-290H; Very interesting here as we see the longer, heavier 45-290H bullet over 7 gr Bullseye come into its own as velocity increases which perhaps has improved the stability(?). Looking at both the velocity (M35P and the M43) and psi measurements for each shot we see they are very uniform for the 1st 8 shots. Then for whatever reason the bottom fell out on the last 2 shots. Both the velocity and psi for both shots was low. Those two shots also are the low two hits in that otherwise excellent group. While the MAP is listed at 17,400 psi(M43) it includes the 2 low shots. If we look at the first 8 shots the MAP is actually closer to 18,200 psi(M43).

Velocity in my 4-5/8" Ruger is about 100 fps less than the 10" Contender pistol. I see no need for a heavier load.

[jmort]

I would get with Tom at Accurate
No doubt he has already been down this road

[Naphtali]

As I told John at Freedom, the Saeco 300 grains crimps at its crimp groove, 21.92 grains H110 in W-W 45 Colt case, CCI Magnum large pistol primers. The load is not maximum, but I avoid those. John thinks I won't be able to find a better load combination. But I'm giving it a try.

[Messy bear]

the heaviest would be a cylinder. so therefore get something with the biggest, thickest nose and secondly with the smallest lube groove(s). then cast it out of the most dense alloy- one with mostly lead and not much tin or antimony. like 50/50 ww and pure. oh and a plain base is usually heavier all else equal.

[Greg S]

The Lee 452-300 WFN GC has a dual crimp bands at 0.3 and 0.4 with 1.275-85 brass would also work.

[lotech]

Aside from a possible accuracy improvement, is there any real or even perceived advantage to bullets heavier than 250 - 260 grains in a .45 Colt?

[pmer]

When I had my Rosi 45 Colt Accurate Molds made this mold for me. I've used it in a muzzle loader and the lever action for deer and it worked great.
It always fed great in the Rosi and I was shooting it up to 1600fps in the rifle. It's a very average looking boolit but that .360 nose length should make it work in any 45 Colt.

[murf205]

NOE moulds made this one for meAttachment 248056 and here it is loaded in a 460S&W case. The nose is relative short and the mold # is SC454-290-RF if you want to look up the drawing with dimensions. It drops at 290 grs as I cast it and it is really accurate from a 15" barrel Encore @ over 2k fps. Might be worth a look.

[beagle]

I've used a RCBS 45-325-FN/U that I HP'd in the .45 Colt with good success and a Hodgdon starting weight of Lil Gun. Gives me all I want in the .45 Colt. Might work for you. Downsize to .452-454. Keep a box around just for bears but I've never seen one on my place. Weighs around 337 grains in the solid and 321 in the HP version./beagle

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The Lee 452-300 WFN GC has a dual crimp bands at 0.3 and 0.4 with 1.275-85 brass would also work.

One of my favorite boolits! Very sexy and a real thumper!

[lar45]

What is the length of the Saeco bullet you are asking about?

[lar45]

There's this 350 from NOE that with a slightly compressed load of H110 might make 1200fps at max Ruger pressures

[Naphtali]

I have no bullets in inventory right now. All are loaded. Here are dimensions easy to find. Meplat diameter is .340 inch. Nose to crimp groove length is .320 inch. As time permits, I'll get out my mold and measure the length from mold's cut-out.

Having typed that, when I found out, I believe with Wes Daems when shooting with his 45 Colt Freedom Arms 97 at 340 yards distant steel targets, I realized that bullet expansion was pretty much irrelevant from a "pre-expanded" .45-caliber bullet compared with its penetration. So I began looking for a heavier bullet that whose crimped length was satisfactory for the FA 97, and had a wide meplat. I discovered Saeco's 300-grain bullet might do the job, depending upon powder capacity of loaded cartridge of H110. I had a ridiculous amount of H110 that was to have been used with my Freedom Arms Model 83 475 Linebaugh. The 475 and I did not remain friends. I was unable to tolerate more than three shots per session of the 400-grain hunting load I used. Any-which-way the Saeco bullet is a nice fit. Since penetration especially on animals much larger than whitetail or mule deer is not unimportant, and is especially important - when woods wandering in Lolo National Forest and "the Bob" - on much larger animals that view me as two or three meals, I'm searching for more bullet weight at the same bullet length as the Saeco. Its wide meplat is the reason I don't believe there is much "dead space" available for increasing its weight while avoiding a cylindrical shape. Hence the 15-grain cut-off.

One last parenthetical. My experience with non-expanding bullets is that through-and-through penetration is a big plus. Bullets demonstrated to penetrate straight will have a bullet diameter entry, internal destruction where you intended to have it destroyed, a significantly larger exit, and a large, easy to follow, blood trail were the animal not to drop within yards of where your shot hit it.

What is the length of the Saeco bullet you are asking about?

[fredj338]

The Lee 300gr gc will fit. I am not a gc fan, but you could have the gc removed. I like the RCBS 270grSAA, which comes in at 285gr cast of range scrap. I know it will not stay inside anything under 400# if driven 1100fps or so.

[cowboy4evr]

I believe it was in John Linebaughs article " Dissolving the Myth " that he talked about shooting a 300 gr cast bullet loaded on top of H-110 for serious hunting larger game . I hope this helps , Regards, Paul