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Thread: 350 Legend and Cast Boolits

  1. #161
    Boolit Master


    tomme boy's Avatar
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    Still not going to work right. The follower tilts and the round nose dives. That rib stops it from tilting. Plus I will give you a hint on helping. The spring is not strong enough. You will need to shim the spring pack. It is another reason no one has figured these out yet. The mag needs high spring pressure to help it not tilt and to feed correctly.

  2. #162
    Boolit Master



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    Yea I agree. Mine has plenty of “nose up” actually Appears TOO MUCH!! But the last round feeding is all spring!!!

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  3. #163
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    Sounds like I need to try to leave a small portion of the front rib still in place to engage the follower and help control the nose up/down tilt illnesses.

    I also bet the overall spring force was never intended to handle the sheer mass & weight of our large lead bullets in a 30 count magazine. Low spring force will mess up a lot of things ......
    Last edited by Oldfeller; 11-13-2019 at 04:29 PM.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  4. #164
    Boolit Master hicard's Avatar
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    I am still looking for a load for the RCBS or Lee 200 gr bullet using Lil'gun powder. Looks like 20-21 grs but has anyone tried it yet?
    This country has gone to hell but now there is hope for us.

  5. #165
    Boolit Master
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    For my 357AR max, I get good feeding from a 20 round Pmag with the side ribs completely removed and the front rib "thinned" up just a little so that my custom small meplat boolits can not grab up front (the meplat was just wider than the original flat on either side of the front rib).

  6. #166
    Boolit Master
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    Before the 350L came out, I worked on coming up with a more AR friendly NLG boolit for my 357AR max.

    Smaller meplat, decent ogive were objectives. After making myself a 180 / 200 gr mold from a blank Lee 2 cavity, I also made a Loner mold.

    This was discussed over at https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/...5573?&trail=75

    I have confirmed that the mold is still available "for loan".

    I think it should work as far as OAL in an AR mag even with the longer case length of a 350L. The full diameter portion drops are 0.359 up near the ogive and 0.360 near the base due to a small amout of tapper. The size was for the 357AR max which was made with 0.358 barrels. With this size and a 0.356 or so finished size for 350L, it would probably be best to size before and after the PC coating step.

    As a warning, this is Lee mold. It was not closing good (occasional case of alignment pins not even hitting the holes) so I made some adjustments. It is better now, but not perfect. When I ran the test batch over the scale, a small fraction of were a grain or more heavy indicating the heavy boolits were cast with the mold not fully closed. This should get better with use, but be sure to lube the alignment pins more often than typical for now.

    I also made up a "base first" ram for push through sizing with a companion nose profile for the mold. A few years ago, I was unhappy with a portion of my plain base boolits having some extrusion around the bases. I swapped over to "base first" and the bases looked much better, but it was hard to keep the nose centered on the ram. With my lathe, I now have "custom" rams that make base first easy, keep everything centered and smooth out the nose just a little.

    If you want it, post a "I will take it" and send me a PM. I will forward applicable info to the current holder.

    The primary "payment" for using the loaner will be to use it, give the boolits an honest check out for accuracy, feeding, etc., and report the results.

    Take some photos of the mold when you get it and if you eventually need to ship it to another tester. Just keep them for now. If you damage the mold, take some photos, fess up and ask what to do next.

    If there is interest from more than one shooter we will work out how long the first tester keeps it.

    The as cast 205s and some run through a 0.358" sizer look like:

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    The as cast 182s and some run through a 0.358" sizer look like:

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    And yes they drop out of the cavities with no tapping required.
    Last edited by P Flados; 11-14-2019 at 06:10 PM.

  7. #167
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    I will take it, and thanks for the chance to do the evaluation.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  8. #168
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    Hicard,

    I sympathize with the general lack of load data, but at this stage of things I will only be working with cast boolits and bulk surplus powders. Right now I am weeding through the milsurp powders that will actually work, trying to determine some generic load levels that are getting closer to realistic/good in the Legend.

    While fixing the "other ills" associated with a gas driven autoloading action ....... of which there are more than just one or two to work out on this gun.

    So far I have made up 5.56 based brass, lapped my barrel, re-throated my gun for longer protruding bullets and totally tuned my firing pin protrusion to a maximum out of bolt face 0.060" deep firing pin stroke motion.

    My gun is not really stock any more.

    Next, if you are looking for some "no knowledge required -- cookbook safe" load information you are in the wrong place. Please go to the very front of this thread on page one and read the whole thing in order.

    There is some good information here, but it does not come in a cookbook format.

    Some of the other guys do use commercial packaged powders but I am not aware of any of them loving Lil'gun as their favorite powder. Read the whole thread because this is Lil'gun thing is explained in some detail.
    Last edited by Oldfeller; 11-18-2019 at 03:28 AM.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  9. #169
    Boolit Master



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    Click image for larger version. 

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    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  10. #170
    Boolit Buddy mehavey's Avatar
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    1. 60-thou pin protrusion may make you vulnerable to pieced primers. I'll be interested in what you find when the hammer falls.

    2. Lil'Gun is absolutely superb in this family of cartridge design. But if you've not got a pressure transducer/chronograph and/or deeply familiar with Quickload/expert extrapolation from baseline published data (and a chronograph), I'd stay away from it as it spikes rather nastily/does not go into over-pressure gracefully.

    3. What bulk powders are you looking at ?

  11. #171
    Boolit Master


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    Mehavey, the reasons you posted about the LIL gun powder are the exact reasons I don't like it. To me that means it is the wrong powder for this cartridge. Which is why whatever powder Winchester is using would be nice if we could get it. Or knew what it is.

    I have been having good luck with slower powders. You can have reasonable speeds and a port pressure that is high enough to cycle the action. I have a adjustable gas block on mine and have no worries if the port pressure is too high using the slower powders. I can just shut it off. And besides. You want a slower initial engraving with a cast bullet so it does not strip or skid in the throat before the gas check has entered the throat and has time to engrave also.

    Cw is also working with slower powders. But he has a bolt gun. He does not have to worry about the action cycling.

  12. #172
    Boolit Buddy mehavey's Avatar
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    One of the problems with the LEGEND and Cast bullets is that there's no data -- not even to start.
    The other problem is -- of course -- that you're alloy/pressure limited.
    That's where QuickLoad and a good chronograph come in.

    FWIW,
    - I'm running fairly heavy: 245gr SAECO using Lyman#2 at full magazine length (2.26") Post #155
    - Barrel's carbine length (16"/15"-rifled)
    - I've found 34-35ksi is "not unreasonable" with gas-checked/medium-bore bullets/#2
    - I tell QL that I want 34ksi/90%+ burn/'Pretty-Full' case (87%+) to Max achievable compression (111%)/Get rid of "Strange" Powders.

    Leaves me these options:


    CAUTION: The above data post includes load data generated by calculation in QuickLOAD software based on a particular powder lot, the assumption the primer is as mild as possible, and assumptions about component, chamber and gun geometry that may not correspond well to what you have. Such data should be approached by working up from published starting loads. USE THIS DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, Cast Boolits, nor the staff of CB, nor QuickLOAD's author nor its distributor assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information or information derived from it.

    Back off 5% to establish/adjust actual burn-rate (implied) from actual chronograph/velocities --> resultant (implied) pressures and we're off to the rocket science experiments
    Last edited by mehavey; 11-18-2019 at 09:01 PM.

  13. #173
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    Mehavey,

    I am running test load series of WC 820 (AA#9 speeds) and WC 846 (BLC-2 speeds). Some source reference load data does exist on CASTPICS from the 35 Remington, but the "extrapolation stretch" is a bit much so IMHO some build and try ladder series really has to take place.

    Complicating this is the various issues with the gun and the homemade brass and the modified magazines, plus it is getting too cold to enjoy protracted sessions at the range shooting all of it up.

    All my "largest loads" loading data was compromised by the fact my "pressure signs" were taken from short, light strikes on the primer, so I am in essence shooting up all the old stuff and starting over now that I have some reach to my firing pin stroke.

    Cold weather plays games with the ball powders, we all know that. It is cold at the range now.

    Complicate this by my use of an aftermarket trigger kit with a lower pressure hammer spring, I wasn't getting much of a primer hit out of it, really.

    This is one of the reasons I don't currently fear getting pierced primers, my firing pin moves very freely in the bolt carrier assembly and it just isn't hammer driven to the degree that could cause a lot of pierced primers.

    If I get some, I will change the firing pin tip form to be a blunt curve --- not going for shorter so much as I am going for a "rounded and BLUNT" tip form.
    Last edited by Oldfeller; 11-19-2019 at 10:49 PM.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  14. #174
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    P Flados

    Once again, thank you for sending the loaner mold --- it arrived today in a USPS flat rate flat mailer.

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    .... and I do mean a FLAT USPS flat rate mailer. The box will never be the same again I am afraid.

    I felt considerable drag and grittiness from the sprue plate motion, so I took it off after recording what was there before pulling the plate.

    What I found were pretty severe scratches from slag coming from the WW metal, which had stuck to the steel sprue plate and had gouged into the aluminum in normal use.

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    Note please that the reddish stuff is not rust, it is some form of mold lubricant caked on the top of the mold.

    I found that the sprue plate had self-tightened itself beyond all reason, being a partial cause of the slag damage all by itself. Raised galling of the aluminum was present by the sprue plate screw boss rotational area, this galling was removed while cleaning up the plus material from the heavy scratches.

    I attempted to remove all the slag and the worst of the raised scratch damage to both mold face and sprue plate. Taking away the ugly raised "plus material" helped the sprue plate motion, but to totally remove the scratches would shorten the mold by several thousands and would be beyond what a well mannered guest would attempt.

    But I did clean off the caked on lubricant from the aluminum and the steel and I did rub burnish Hexagonal Boron Nitride into the surfaces to keep future crap from sticking as easily to the mold and sprue plate.

    Condition of the mold is "well used" but serviceable.

    Last pics show the mold "as ready to cast" if I get P Flados's OK to proceed with using it.

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    Last edited by Oldfeller; 11-21-2019 at 09:40 PM.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  15. #175
    Boolit Master
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    I am glad to hear of the timely arrival.

    Sounds like you did what needed to be done, thanks.

    I am not real worried about the scratched up surface. Some of my older molds still do pretty good with similar wear.

    Cast away and see how they work.

  16. #176
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    You fellas are having way too much fun playin' around with the 350L.

    BB

  17. #177
    Boolit Buddy chaos's Avatar
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    I took a hog cleanly about an hour ago. Starline brass, Lyman Keith slug 358429???? I believe. Cant remember as I have a ton casted up...and havent poured a bullet in about 6 years. Javelina lube. DRT, with the exception of a few kicks.

    Front rib removed from 10 round magpul mag. Slug sized .356.

    Will be the only rifle kill this year unless a deer walks out as I am a handgun hunter and set this little rig up for my wife.


    It seems you have gone through a mile of trouble to reinvent the wheel here. Good luck in your endeavors.

    Not sure how to post pics anymore
    I try and time my flinch with my trigger jerk, so that they cancel each other out.

  18. #178
    Boolit Buddy chaos's Avatar
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    And I just checked my mag
    It reads "P mag 10" and "Magpul.com" on the side.

    I guess I just dont understand all this. The manufacturers said from the get go that 5.56 brass would not work. Its too short. You will end up drawing it out too thin to make it work. I didnt read all this drivel, but I'd imagine a mile of split cases
    I try and time my flinch with my trigger jerk, so that they cancel each other out.

  19. #179
    Boolit Master
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    Here's some data I've collected. I'm dropping to 22 gr. of Lil'Gun as 23 is a bit too warm for my liking.
    The WC680 loads show some promise and I'm going to try higher charges on the next trip to the range.

    190 RCBS Silhouette .357 23.0 Lil'Gun CCI 400 Starline 2245 fps
    190 RCBS Silhouette .357 23.0 WC680 CCI 400 Starline 1801 fps
    190 RCBS Silhouette .357 24.0 WC680 CCI 400 Starline 1848 fps
    190 RCBS Silhouette .357 25.0 WC680 CCI 400 Starline 1910 fps

  20. #180
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    OK, bullets cast and first sized (before coating).

    I used my stock LEE pusher as your nose pusher is too large in the body to enter into my .3565" sizing die "restriction zone".

    Still worked OK. There is a tiny, evenly distributed swaging line on the bottom outer edge of the bullet, one that I think will be swallowed up in the coating thickness.
    Last edited by Oldfeller; 11-25-2019 at 03:03 AM.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check