350 Legend and Cast Boolits

[Oldfeller]

Who shoots a 9.3 metric caliber?

I have actually made me up a dandy little 9.3mm four hole round end powder coat mold that will powder coat just fine and using a LEE push through sizer it will size down to fit your .366" bore without excessive sizing pressure in one pass.

I also note that I could size to .366" as a first step, then take it on down to .356" - .357" on a second sizing pass. Bullets would be fairly heavy for a Legend, and I think I can do "closer" with the new tooling that has been ordered and is on the way.




Bullet weight ranges from 224 grains to 234 grains as cast.

[P Flados]

Now we wait another 1 1/2 months for cutters to ship from China.

I could make you a quick D reamer and have it to you inside of a week

You really should try one before you spend too much on other choices.

[Oldfeller]

Now, that would involve me confessing that I had frick'd up .......

....... especially since I just discovered I was just building a 9.3 (.366") mold all along.

[kenton]

Shars has 11/32 ballend endmills in stock if you don't want to wait on the slow boat from China. $24 plus shipping.

https://www.shars.com/products/cutti...egory=Ball+End

[P Flados]

After making the offer, it occurred to me that I should add a 80 - 90 gr 32 cal WFN cavity to an existing 2 cavity 55 gr plinker mold I made up years ago. Since I shoot about 2 plinkers for every one stout load, this would work pretty good for feeding my high volume 32 habit (4.2" Ruger SP-101 327 Fed for the stout loads and 8" stub tube Contender in 32 ACP for the plinkers).

So I found an existing D reamer in my basket with an OD of 312", and reground it to be more of a WFN.

I mounted the mold, drilled a pilot hole and cut the new cavity. After cutting it with the reamer, I bored it out to 0.313" or so.

I cast ~ 300 of the new boolits and ~ 600 of the 55 gr boolits. The new ones turned out to be 78 grs. A little light, but I will try them and probably leave the mold as is. If needed, I can remount the mold and cut the cavity a little deeper.

I PC coated the 78s and have a nice batch ready to load. The OD with PC is just barely over target diameter (0.314") so they zip through the push through size real nice.

Easy peasy in the life of a D Reamer mold maker.

[Oldfeller]

Reading some of P Flatos earlier work making reforming dies that crush form bullets with normal LEE press forces, I offer some new twisted ____ thoughts concerning my original .010"-.020" oversized 235 grain mold.


Step 1:__First, the mold drops well and runs well. Making lots of source slugs off of it is not the issue.

Step 2:__Post casting cleaning by running them in my large vibratory tumbler with some dishwashing soap gets rid of any little pressure fins at the bullet base and on the sides and rounds up all the sharp edges on the nose just a little bit.

Step 3:__Apply Ford Light Blue powder using the dedicated little tumbler. Powder coating adheres much better to a washed, cleaned and surface roughened bullet form.

Step 4:__Then cure the original coat of powder, leaving it fairly hard tough and durable, but not hardened to the point it wants to crack when the bullet diameter moves, stretches and downsizes underneath it.

Step 5a:__Using my longest LEE Classic press arm to get maximum leverage, the ram pressures needed to extrude & size it all down in a single stroke are available if the powder coated slugs get some "extreme pressure" gear oil slickum put on them before their very first trip through the .3565" LEE sizing die.

Step 5b:__Those slugs that see the tip splitter could get that as a natural part of step #5, as heavy oil plays a part in that tip splitting process too.

Step 5c:__Repacking the tips leaving a film of gear oil between the 3 petals would be both a natural and a desirable situation for subsonic use.

These super 235 grain heavy slugs would lend support to a subsonic loading out of the Legend. With the tips heavily split, such powder coated slugs would still expand well as a sub-sonic loading and because of the high mass they would have lots of energy available to transmit to a game animal's chest cavity and still bore on through for a good blood trail.

[P Flados]

For a while I had an oversized PC coated boolit I was sizing.

A very light wipe of beeswax or some of a softer traditional bullet lubes makes it much easier and I did not have to worry about the "residue" causing problems.

I am betting a very light coat of a liquid tumble lube woulds also work.

Either of these would save you any worry about needing to remove the lubricant after sizing.

The other approach that you might want to try is:

1. Cast the booilts
2. Size down ~0.005" before PC
3. PC the boolits
4. Size them down to final diameter

If they are hard to size even with the two pass system, the light wipe of beeswax / lube works. I had no trouble getting PC to stick after sizing bare boolits and then leaving the residual lube on them.

With the tooling you have, you should be able to make a mating nose punch for doing your sizing base first. I found that this seems to take care of any small base fins pretty good. It also smooths out any small fins or imperfections in the nose region of the boolits.

Now all of the above is only worth the effort if you use them and work up a sub load that your gun likes. I would focus on testing some loads at this point. If you find an accurate load that uses a "non-expanding" version, then you will have a reference point as you then move forward with your nose modification experiments.

With that round nose, you may find that drilling a big hollow point works for expansion and is beefy enough to survive the feeding trip into the chamber without excessive damage. A simple drilled hollow point is proven technology.

[Oldfeller]

I am thinking about running the bodkin into the lead bullet until the cuts hit the straight body section for a 1/16" to 1/8" distance. I know I will already have a very short post nose section that will be very slightly sub-sized to the rest of the body, so the air gaps that result at the remated cut zones will give that very mild clearance space something constructive to do.

I have tried base first sizing, but didn't like the powder coat displacement that sometimes occured at the nose ogive area as that affected stripping and loading from the 13 round steel lipped M96 Beretta magazines that happened on several (too many times for personal defense use) occasions.

Having me some very minor and relatively even finning of the powder coat at the bullet base does not bother me as much as I feel that the very minor even finning does not survive the forcing cone and the trip up the barrel and the tiny fins would not survive the very violent very hot gas flow muzzle blast effects ...... whatever "group scattering effects" that actually would remain are not worrying to my old eyes and to my generally poor shooting anyway.


I also ordered a foot of 7/8"x14 all thread from McMaster Carr so I can build me a handy dandy repacking tool or two for the split tip tulip form as they have to get small enough to re-enter the .370" entry opening of the LEE sizing die.


==================================


Today my set of larger fully ground HSS countersinks with titanium nitride coating showed up from Amazon, so I repaired the small depth & form errors in my sprue plates that came from the original countersink being simply a bit too small in diameter. Repairs were composed of re-countersinking the existing sprue hole cones, a very very easy repair to do as the set up was already done and the cones acted self-centering to the cutter anyway.

Slowing the drill press down and removing most of the run out changed the nature of the sprue cone cutting action to a VERY LARGE degree ...... cutting finish was much smoother and the drill press did not vibrate and groan at all during the high pressure stages of the larger diameter cut.


Good news from the cutter suppliers -- all of my stuff should be in by 2 weeks as they can make my specialty coated ball end mill by vapor coating a standard bare carbide end mill that they keep in stock.

[44Blam]

Y'all, I think I may have a little secret sauce with this one...
Hodgdon is calling for W296 in the 350 legend... BUT what about AA #11???
Seems like you can get a 125 grain boolit in the 2700 fps range and a 180 in the 2200 fps???

UPS is coming tomorrow with the upper...

Forgive me but I'm gonna dream a little.

[Oldfeller]

This thread is all about dreaming, and trying and reporting the results (good or bad).

It is a conversation.

I can't find AA#11 on my old burn rate charts, must be new or unusual stuff for the caliber. I use the milsurp pulldown equivalent to AA#9, so I get the gist of the "neighborhood" but I haven't met that particular powder before.

[Dapaki]

....UPS is coming tomorrow with the upper...

Forgive me but I'm gonna dream a little.

Dream away! I have found more boolits and probable loads for the Legend than any other rifle round and so far, I can load and shoot anything I can load/shoot in my DW .357. Some don't feed off the magazine but will single feed and some will not cycle but are fun to plink with.

[Oldfeller]

All of my tooling and the 7/8"x14 all thread rod stock now reports as shipped --- some will take a week or three to actually arrive.

[44Blam]

This thread is all about dreaming, and trying and reporting the results (good or bad).

It is a conversation.

I can't find AA#11 on my old burn rate charts, must be new or unusual stuff for the caliber. I use the milsurp pulldown equivalent to AA#9, so I get the gist of the "neighborhood" but I haven't met that particular powder before.

[EDIT] It IS on their chart. At the same level as H110 and W296.
No. 11FS - Power Pro 300-MP - H-110 - 296

But it is touted as a magnum pistol powder (44mag/357mag) and I believe it is just slightly slower than W296.

[Burnt Fingers]

11FS isn't AA 11.

[mehavey]

QuickLoad doesn't show an AA#11 either
HANDLOADER sees AA #11FS as a flash-suppressed/slightly slower W296 --> WC297
https://www.handloadermagazine.com/p...nt-profiles-12

Sometime in the early days of this century, the Olin Corporation, parent company of Winchester Ammunition, decided to divest itself of its powder manufacturing operation. The first step was to establish a separate subsidiary, Primex Technologies, Inc., that would assume manufacture of all powders and sell them on the open market. Coming across the Primex booth at a trade show shortly after its formation, I was given a table of then-available Primex powders. Included in the list was one called SMP297. I was told this was the same as Winchester 296, but with a flash suppressant, and was used primarily in ammunition for law enforcement and other entities where a reduced muzzle flash would be advantageous.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When Western completed its review, WC297 was released under the Accurate label as No. 11FS. So now we have four, but with No. 11FS having 297’s flash suppressant in its composition, hence the suffix FS.

[Oldfeller]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

______ click on the pic to get an expanded view

Quick update

Bodkin points came in with a rough ground finish. The nitrided steel is tough to sharpen and I will NOT be trying to cut it using carbide lathe tools as I see the cutting forces needed to cut the stuff would exceed what the little lathe can generate (or tolerate structurally). I used a 6" fine diamond hone plate to do the flat honing job on this one.

The bodkin you see above is fitted to the LEE resizer die top large bore size (see the tiny shiny flat point at the fat end of the blade taper). No need for a tool post grinder, you could have done the job with a diamond file and saved the expense of the tool post grinder.

The basic idea still seems sound and I will proceed to fit the aluminum shaft and stop shoulder next.

Look at the picture to eyeball the relative penetration into the nose and body of a P Flados 185 grain powder coated bullet.



This will take you to a source for the bodkin points.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Dapaki]

Oldfeller, looking forward to your findings.

I had some fun with gallery rounds yesterday, 6.1gr Red Dot (very dirty) with the 105gr TC/SWC and the LEE 90428 which they dont make anymore, that part number is now a .429 cal RN...

These were very easy to shoot and mind blowingly accurate at 50 yards. I dialed in a loaner scope from another AR and settled in on this 20 round group, 18 shots in 3/4" and two fliers bringing the group to 1-1/4" overall. Front supported on a sand bag, butt unsupported so there was a lot of heartbeat osculation going on.

Still, I think that even though I had to pull the bolt for every shot, the lack of recoil and accuracy was well worth the extra effort. Ill move out to 100 yards today and see if they hold the same group.

[Oldfeller]

Dapaki,

I am theorizing a way to make a round nose pre-coat form (.010" undersized before coating) so that the shank of the body can take an aluminum can gas check pre-coating, then get coated, size and then get the tip split (which jacks the body diameter way up by simple displacement) then get the whole slug straightened and re-sized down to .3565" in my same LEE .3565" die.

I theorize such a slug off a 200-230 grain body length could be fired at 1000 fps off a fast powder (generating pressure and acceleration enough to cause bullet stacking growth by chamber slugging effects when first fired).

Bullet as cast size plus aluminum gas check thickness plus pressure bumping effects will gas seal the base and the nose will be full .3565" sized after tip splitting and re-sizing. I think these slugs will do OK when fired from my gun as the tip splitting is well supported by the thick lead webs that the splitting action leaves and the bore of the gun while it makes the trip out the muzzle.

Will it be long distance accurate after being split open mechanically and put back together by a sizing die? Well Gold Dots and Deep Curls and other plated tip split bullets seem to do OK through this series of steps, so I would think it would do OK enough for a home made system.

Would it open up? Yes, and fragment (spin toss) the heavy petals off too. Expansion after petal loss would be moot as you would be on the second half of the animal anyway. Nosler Partitions did this exact same trick and the blunt bullet shank just smashing on through the beast was never seen as a detriment to "bullet performance" as it went through ribs and spine bones, etc. just fine and provided a good blood trail for animal tracking after exiting.

Would it perform as a sub-sonic? I think so as the tip split effect is 100% at the nose and the tri-lobe form runs down deep inside the bullet.

I will complete the rig and do some bullets by this fall as right now I have the second half garden to struggle to put in (the late fall garden is over half my crop cycle) and the second half garden planting is going rough right now as it is too HOT and too DRY to get good sprouting and young plant survival right now.

I am having to multiple plant things 2-3 times to get a decent row fill.

[Oldfeller]

Guys, who has some aluminum can home made .38 caliber gas checks they could put in a US Mail envelope so I can try them out?

[44Blam]

Guys, who has some aluminum can home made .38 caliber gas checks they could put in a US Mail envelope so I can try them out?

I've got some 35 caliber aluminum gcs... I know it won't work with that particular boolit, but maybe you can cut a GC shank? PM me if you want a few.