Alliant Promo Powder

[Slugster]

I have been looking for a less expensive powder for general target shooting, plinking, etc, and was wondering if anyone has experience with Alliant Promo powder? Data seems pretty scarce for cartridge reloading. I'm trying to find an "all around" type of powder that I can use in rifles and handguns with CB's. I have RedDot, 2400, BlueDot, and several other powders, but like the price point of Promo at less than 140 bucks per 8 pounds. Anyone use this powder or have loading info? Thank you.

[Finster101]

I use a ton of it. Use Red Dot loading data.

[JBinMN]

I use a ton of it. Use Red Dot loading data.

Ditto.
And weigh the charges. Do Not use volume measurements.


G'Luck!

[jmort]

"I use a ton of it. Use Red Dot loading data."

^^^^^^ What he said
Shotgun, handgun, rifle
Inexpensive as it gets and as useful as it gets, this side of Unique, the ultimate Swiss-Army Knife, this side if Unique

[Ed_Shot]

+1 for Promo....use more of it than anything else.

[Slugster]

Thank you to everyone who replied. RedDot data really simplifies this for me.

[Burnt Fingers]

Ditto.
And weigh the charges. Do Not use volume measurements.


G'Luck!

It must be pretty slow to load if I have to weigh every charge.

Why do you say weigh every charge? Is it that inaccurate in a volumetric powder measure?

[JBinMN]

I will share with you the Alliant webpage for Promo powder:
https://www.alliantpowder.com/produc...der/promo.aspx

If you go to that page the first paragraph for the description of Promo powder explains what I was trying to say:

America's number one economy-priced 12 gauge target powder. Promo has the same burn speed as Red Dot, but is more dense, thus requiring a smaller bushing to obtain the same charge weight.

I hope that would clear things up for ya. The "bushing" is what is the "volumetric" part of a Powder throw, or scoops, etc.. It is only after being "thrown" or "scooped" that it should be weighed to meet the load data tables for Red Dot powder that are listed in Grains, for Weight.

I don't if I know how, right now, to explain it much better, except maybe to say that if you were to put a scoop of Promo into a Lee volume measure scoop of let's say, 2 CCs, and then weigh it, and then take the same measure of Red Dot scooped up & weight it, the amount of "grains weight" for the Promo would be heavier than the Red Dot because Promo is more "dense", meaning it takes up less space between the particles of powder than Red Dot does, & Promo will weigh more when volumetric scooped/thrown, than the Red Dot will weigh after being scooped/thrown.

{ Imagine sand verses gravel of the same type of rock in a bucket. Since the sand is more dense & the particles will snug tighter together in the bucket, since the sand can fit more of the same rock type in sand as in gravel form with the air spaces between the gravel,
the weight of the bucket between the two will have the sand weighing more than the gravel, even though they are of like materials. Dunno if that is a good analogy, but the meaning of it is pretty close to the same between the denseness of Promo vs Red Dot.)

Thus, since the load tables in most reloading manuals use "Weight in Grains", instead of "Volume", then someone using a volumetric method such as "scoops" would allow that more weight of Promo would be added to a charge in a case or cases, than the specified amount of Red Dot in the manual, likely causing an "over pressure" situation.

I hope that is enough to help understand the difference. The other option is to try it & possibly suffer some damage to ones firearm, or additionally, damage to the shooter or someone else near by.

Hope that helps.

[JBinMN]

It must be pretty slow to load if I have to weigh every charge.

Why do you say weigh every charge? Is it that inaccurate in a volumetric powder measure?

See the above post, but I can explain what to do if using a powder throw( Although I "do" weigh all of my charges most of the time.)

Here is how you do it. If your powder throw is set for throwing 3.0 grains of red dot, and you decide you want to use another powder. Don't you reset the powder throw to work for the other powder then weigh the amounts that the powder measure throws for the new powder to get the weight right for the amounts listed in a load manual?

If you are loading 45ACP & Red dot is being thrown at 4.7 grains for a mid level charge & you decide you want to change over to w-231, don't you reset the powder measure to meet the load data range for the new powder before you start loading the new round with W-231?

Well in the case of Promo, the load data is the same as Red dot, but only in WEIGHT. So since Promo is more dense than Red Dot, you will have to reset your powder throw by weighing some charges ( which most folks do & then re-check every 10 charges or so, whatever your safety margin is & your trust level is in your powder throw being accurate for certain powders.)

The "Volume" in the powder throw( or scoop, etc.) is not going to be the same for another powder usually, and thus using Weight, like the Load data usually list, in Grains, is the best way to make sure your "volumetric" powder throw( or scoop, etc. ) is correct & keep for having issues with the wrong amount in the cases...

So, once again, I hope I explained it better.

If not, perhaps someone else can do a better job in doing so. I do not want anyone to get hurt or mess up their firearm(S).

[Wayne Smith]

Basically what everyone is saying is set your powder measure to the PROMO weight but use Red Dot data. DON'T assume that your Red Dot setting on your powder measure can be used with PROMO. It cannot, not safely.

[JBinMN]

Basically what everyone is saying is set your powder measure to the PROMO weight but use Red Dot data. DON'T assume that your Red Dot setting on your powder measure can be used with PROMO. It cannot, not safely.

I wish you had answered the post before I took a stab at it... Makes me feel as though I wasted my time.

Thanks for the "succinct" & brief way to explain it. I wish I could do that. Only time I do is when I am pissed at someone & want to "give them the business.", Then I am pretty "succinct" & direct myself...

[Wayne Smith]

JB, as a Psychologist I have to make things short and succinct to get a point across in therapy. I guess I've gotten good at it.

I've thought more about this, JB. I told him what to do, or how to do it. You explained why. Both are necessary.

[Burnt Fingers]

That's what I thought you meant but I couldn't be sure.

I would NEVER not check my powder measure when switching powders.

The warning for Promo from Alliant is aimed at shot shell loaders.

[JBinMN]

That's what I thought you meant but I couldn't be sure.

I would NEVER not check my powder measure when switching powders.

The warning for Promo from Alliant is aimed at shot shell loaders.

Well, I reckon you "could" say the warning was for shot shell loaders, but considering "all of the "Dot" powders were designed for shotshell loaders, but are used by metallic cartridge loaders as well, it would be prudent for anyone loading powders to pay attention to any warnings on any of the shot shell powders when using them for metallic cartridges, since the same things that are warned about for shot shells would carry over to metallic cartridges, right?

You can see for yourself here about the "Dots", like Red , Blue Green, Clay, etc., if perhaps you were not aware. Note that at least one powder is used that is a metallic case powder, but is usable for shotguns as well, like Unique:
https://www.alliantpowder.com/products/shotshell.aspx

But only Promo has the warning about using Red Dot data, by weight, rather than volume for measuring. Thus, that is why I mentioned it as a reminder a while back in post #3. Because it is important to know, and the OP asked about info.


Glad to know you understand.

JB, as a Psychologist I have to make things short and succinct to get a point across in therapy. I guess I've gotten good at it.

Apparently you have become good at it, & as well, apparently I didn't have to take the time to post what I did, but oh well... Life goes on & maybe it will help someone else someday.

[Wayne Smith]

Not just for shotgun loaders. I have a Pacific Pistol Powder Measure and a Bair Pistol powder measure and both use fixed drilled chambers to measure powder, just as the shotgun loaders do. An RCBS measure works the same way. I have a bunch of powder weights recorded for each size chamber. If I get Promo I'll have to add it to the lists.

[Burnt Fingers]

Well, I reckon you "could" say the warning was for shot shell loaders, but considering "all of the "Dot" powders were designed for shotshell loaders, but are used by metallic cartridge loaders as well, it would be prudent for anyone loading powders to pay attention to any warnings on any of the shot shell powders when using them for metallic cartridges, since the same things that are warned about for shot shells would carry over to metallic cartridges, right?

You can see for yourself here about the "Dots", like Red , Blue Green, Clay, etc., if perhaps you were not aware. Note that at least one powder is used that is a metallic case powder, but is usable for shotguns as well, like Unique:
https://www.alliantpowder.com/products/shotshell.aspx

But only Promo has the warning about using Red Dot data, by weight, rather than volume for measuring. Thus, that is why I mentioned it as a reminder a while back in post #3. Because it is important to know, and the OP asked about info.


Glad to know you understand.





Apparently you have become good at it, & as well, apparently I didn't have to take the time to post what I did, but oh well... Life goes on & maybe it will help someone else someday.

I'm aware of the powders.

The reason only Promo has that warning is because it has the same burn rate as Red Dot. None of the other Dot powders have a similar situation. They are warning the slow learning shot shell loader to switch bushings as Promo has the same burn rate but is denser.

This in no way implies that one must weigh every charge of Promo when using it in metallic cartridges.

I'm not aware of any load data for metallic cartridges that specifies a VOLUME of powder. It's always a WEIGHT. We use volumetric powder measures to save time. A good volumetric powder measure can be extremely accurate in dropping the same WEIGHT of powder each time.

When we say use Red Dot data with Promo in metallic reloading we are of course talking WEIGHT, not VOLUME. If you know of a data source for metallic reloading that specifies VOLUMES of powder I'd like to see it.

[JBinMN]

I'm aware of the powders.

The reason only Promo has that warning is because it has the same burn rate as Red Dot. None of the other Dot powders have a similar situation. They are warning the slow learning shot shell loader to switch bushings as Promo has the same burn rate but is denser.

This in no way implies that one must weigh every charge of Promo when using it in metallic cartridges.

I'm not aware of any load data for metallic cartridges that specifies a VOLUME of powder. It's always a WEIGHT. We use volumetric powder measures to save time. A good volumetric powder measure can be extremely accurate in dropping the same WEIGHT of powder each time.

When we say use Red Dot data with Promo in metallic reloading we are of course talking WEIGHT, not VOLUME. If you know of a data source for metallic reloading that specifies VOLUMES of powder I'd like to see it.

OK. This is the last time I am responding to you on this subject.

No where did I say one had to weigh every round.

I repeat.

No where did I say you had to weigh every round.

I hope that you take the time to go back & look to see if I did, but I assure you I did not.

Here is the post # 3, my very first post in this topic where I mentioned weighing the charges:

Ditto.
And weigh the charges. Do Not use volume measurements.


G'Luck!

by mentioning weighing vs using volume it was to make sure that no matter the caliber one is using, the loader should weigh the load when preparing to load using Promo, even though one is using Red Dot data. One should weigh the charges to get the correct amount, rather than using a volume amount of Promo as compared to Red Dot.

IN post # 8 in direct response to your question(s) in post #7 I answered the question(s)

Post# 7 with questions:

Why do you say weigh every charge? Is it that inaccurate in a volumetric powder measure?

Post # 8 in reply check out the first 2 paragraphs after the quote from Alliant:

I hope that would clear things up for ya. The "bushing" is what is the "volumetric" part of a Powder throw, or scoops, etc.. It is only after being "thrown" or "scooped" that it should be weighed to meet the load data tables for Red Dot powder that are listed in Grains, for Weight.

I don't if I know how, right now, to explain it much better, except maybe to say that if you were to put a scoop of Promo into a Lee volume measure scoop of let's say, 2 CCs, and then weigh it, and then take the same measure of Red Dot scooped up & weight it, the amount of "grains weight" for the Promo would be heavier than the Red Dot because Promo is more "dense", meaning it takes up less space between the particles of powder than Red Dot does, & Promo will weigh more when volumetric scooped/thrown, than the Red Dot will weigh after being scooped/thrown.

So, what was said explained that one had to weigh, rather than use the same volume, in the interchangeability of Promo & Red Dot.

Implying that one needs to weigh, before throwing volumetrically to make sure one was safe.

That clarification was the answer I tried to make, to answer your questions & the rest was explanation to try to clarify using examples.

I am done explaining this now. If you continue to nit pic on this weight thing because of an assumption you made, when it was posted intending to make sure someone was aware that they had to weigh their charges for safety reasons, and not every time they throw a charge, I am going to assume that your doing so is not meant to be in the interest of sharing knowledge, or clarifying info, but is to be a PITA. I will NOT be replying to you about this any more. I am not wasting any more time on ya.

[Burnt Fingers]

I wasn't trying to piss in your oatmeal.

You did say weigh the charges and not use a volume measurement.

Ok, so don't use a powder measure because it uses VOLUME. That leaves weighing every charge.

Correct?

What you meant, and should have said, was read the warning and verify weight.

[Bookworm]

Are you two brothers ?

'Cause you sound like my "Irish twin" brother and myself bickering.

When we were 10.....

[uscra112]

I wasn't trying to piss in your oatmeal.

You did say weigh the charges and not use a volume measurement.

Ok, so don't use a powder measure because it uses VOLUME. That leaves weighing every charge.

Correct?

What you meant, and should have said, was read the warning and verify weight.

It means resetting your powder measure to throw the same weight of Promo as you would use for Red Dot. Once you have the measure reset, you can go to town.