Shooting Round Balls Without Patches

[Maven]

Good to know my gun isn't so different when using bare ball loads, bigted. As you can see, it does OK with patched RB's: 65gr. FFFg or 75 - 80gr FFg does well with a slightly larger ball than you're using, but the same patch thickness. When I use up the Graf's Schuetzen powder and the #1 can of Goex I won, I'm certainly going to try Olde Eynsford as I read nothing but good things about it. Btw, I use 1 Ballistol : 6 water as a patch lube and don't really need to swab the bore for an entire session (which isn't the case with bare balls, don'tcha know!).

[dave951]

Here's a pic of my smoothbore testing. Open group is with "dimpling" the ball and removing sprue. Tight one is nothing done to ball, including leaving on the sprue. In both groups, the ONLY variable changed was dimpling the ball. Powder charges remained the same, same cap, NO wiping between shots. NO patches.

Group at bottom was shot first. Again, no wiping at all. Then the top group was shot, again, no wiping. Neither group was patched, wiped, or otherwise manipulated. Last shot was the one in the dot and it was done to confirm my sight picture.

The loose group was shot first followed immediately by the tight one. Again, only change in the load was the treatment of the ball, no wiping between shots, rapid fire, no patches. This was to simulate rapid fire conditions of a North South Skirmish Association smoothbore match.

[bigted]

Dave, that is way kewl brother! The top (tight) group was bare ball with 65 grains powder ... correct?

I missed the ball diameter, OP wad, powder type and granulation as well as over ball card. Maybe include your bore diameter if you please.

I can only do that good with patch's. If I could develop a bare ball group like that, I do not think I would ever use a patch again.

[dave951]

Smoothbore is a measured .690 at the muzzle. The ball is .685. No over powder wad. Powder is 65g 3f Old Eysnford. No over ball card. No issues with ball moving off powder charge, especially after the first shot.

I shoot in North South Skirmish competition and it's a balance of accuracy and speed so all that wad stuff is a non starter. My personal theory on this, for what it's worth, is that the ball only has .005 total windage so the powder ignition almost immediately obturates the ball to the bore. The musket lube on the back of the ball keeps the fouling soft. Just for giggles, I've quickly shot 16 in a row without wiping just to see what would happen. Same accuracy as the first shot, not much resistance to ramming. Ran out of ammo and gun was hot at that point. That happens when you're cracking along at 4 shots a minute.

Procedure to make my "Skirmish" ammo- put 65gr 3f Old E in plastic cartridge tube. Seat ball about halfway into mouth of tube (I go sprue down, but in testing I haven't found any difference in accuracy). Triple dip the exposed part of the ball into musket lube for a good coating on the exposed part of the ball. I'm using Len's Lube that's sold to NSSA competitors. If I had to guess, it's wax, olive oil, and graphite and maybe something else. That's it. Easy peezy.

To load, pop ball out of end of tube, dump powder into bore, place ball on muzzle (lubed side DOWN to powder), ram in one quick stroke, cap and shoot. I can repeat that process until I run out of ammo with no wiping between shots and the accuracy doesn't fall off one bit. Now with the lubed ball to the powder, I don't think I'd want to leave a round in there for very long since it may "kill" some of the powder, but for our speed competition, that's not an issue.

[dave951]

Here's the culprit. It started life as a 1842 Armisport Springfield. During the War, the South collected damaged guns from the field and had them repaired at various arsenals. In the case of my smoothbore, the Macon Arsenal generally did the cut downs like this, so mine is a repop of what is known as a 42 Macon. That short barrel really makes for a well balanced gun and very quick on the reload. As a point of reference, the sheet of paper is standard 9.5x11. There are 6 shots at 25yds in the bottom "slice" of the pie and that was intentional. I flinched on #7.

[Afro408]

Hi fellas. I found I could get my home made 52cal smooth bore to shoot, by putting a thick felt wad under and one over the bare ball. Patching the ball gave big groups.
I was punching them from 3/8" counter lining felt offcuts scrounged from the local saddler. With the wads it shot only a little worse than it does now that I have rifled it.
If you're not shooting to strict comp rules, then a wad sandwich, is the way to go. If you can put the ball into a modern shotgun wad sabot, it is just as good.

[TheGrimReaper]

to me patched just makes more sense. but I have wrong in the past...just ask my wife.

[Earlwb]

As I understood it, they used unpatched balls in a combat situation, where they may be moving and firing on the run. No time to mess around with a precision load. They would keep some balls in their mouth to get the wet so the balls would tend to stick to the powder in the barrel and not roll out easily. it would not be a problem as they would be firing it off in seconds anyway. Accuracy wasn't much of an issue if an assailant was charging you and you fired from short range.

[bigted]

I would absolutely love getting a bare ball to shoot. Thing I gleaned is the lube triple dunked on a .005 inch under bore diameter ball.

Going to have to give this a try. Really never occurred to me to lube the bare ball.

Thanks for the hint!

[Good Cheer]

As I understood it, they used unpatched balls in a combat situation, where they may be moving and firing on the run. No time to mess around with a precision load. They would keep some balls in their mouth to get the wet so the balls would tend to stick to the powder in the barrel and not roll out easily. it would not be a problem as they would be firing it off in seconds anyway. Accuracy wasn't much of an issue if an assailant was charging you and you fired from short range.

Yeah, that seemed to be a practice that made the Baker rifle successful as a combat arm. If the enemy was far enough away to give you time to load a patched ball then you had the piece to reach out. When you closed then rapid fire with less accuracy was plenty accurate enough.

[59sharps]

Here's the culprit. It started life as a 1842 Armisport Springfield. During the War, the South collected damaged guns from the field and had them repaired at various arsenals. In the case of my smoothbore, the Macon Arsenal generally did the cut downs like this, so mine is a repop of what is known as a 42 Macon. That short barrel really makes for a well balanced gun and very quick on the reload. As a point of reference, the sheet of paper is standard 9.5x11. There are 6 shots at 25yds in the bottom "slice" of the pie and that was intentional. I flinched on #7.

Dave which unit you w? I'm heading to the fort tonight get there sometime tomorrow

[Theditchman]

I was sighting in today and thought I would give this a try

50 yds...60g FFF......457 ball....felt wad under ball....I used balls made in my Ruger size mold and this was with peep sights on my T/C Hawken .45

[Theditchman]

I was sighting in today and thought I would give this a try

50 yds...60g FFF......457 ball....felt wad under ball....I used balls made in my Ruger size mold and this was with peep sights on my T/C Hawken .45

[rfd]

i am not using or needing my flintlocks for any manner of war situation. i see no appreciable advantage with loading naked balls. nor do i appreciate the leading that always incurs. patched balls rule, naked balls drool. ymmv.

[Maven]

I never got so much as a speck of lead when using bare ball loads, Rob (not the most accurate out of my gun though).

[megasupermagnum]

I have always wondered why oversize balls were never popular. I've often been tempted to try a lee .562" ball in a 54 caliber. That's over .010" oversize, but I can't imagine it being that terribly hard to start if cast very soft. There's nothing wrong with a patched round ball, but it sure is an adventure trying to find a ball/patch combo that works.

[LAGS]

Has anyone tried Powder Coating the lead balls for a better seal and limiting exposure of lead to the barrel.
Might be a lot of work to coat them , but I know it can be done.
Especially if you use Swedged lead balls or cast balls Tumbled in a rock tumbler to pound off the sprue to make them fully round.

[OverMax]

In the heat of close range battle field conditions I could imagine many scared & trembling young fellows trying to shoot bare ball. Today. To save a patch? Or to shave reloading time? Little benefit had when dentures or crowns & fillings fill the voids in ones mouth.
BTW Not to long ago I experimented with dimpled patched ball. But I refused to chew on lead. So as told by a fellow Down~Under B/P shooter "just put a hand full of ball in a towel and see-saw the towels ends back & forth." The Tip worked. Most ball I shot that were Patched & dimpled. Such ball were a bit more accurate but not enough to benefit my rifle shooting which typically is measured in paces/ feet ~not yards. Although if you have the erge to dimple as preformed by you're ancestors> have at it. lol

[LAGS]

I have dimpled the lead balls by tumbling them in my Rock Tumbler with Steel ball bearings.
I wanted to see if they would fly true because of the dimples being similar to the ones on Golf Balls.
They were accurate , but then I really couldn't see a measurable difference.
But then I am not much of a Golfer either , so the dimples in a golf ball didn't help me either.

[OverMax]

As told by a all knowing professional Coat'er some time back: His powder coating cast lead bullets garnered near 2-3 thousands additional diameter over its a bareness.
The same coating figured with a Ball? Do you~~think such coated cast Ball would drastically change in accuracy?
"You be the judge."