Titan ReloadingInline FabricationRotoMetals2Load Data
MidSouth Shooters SupplyReloading EverythingWidenersLee Precision
Repackbox
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: S&W 940 vs. Illinois LE Handgun Qualification

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Posts
    455

    S&W 940 vs. Illinois LE Handgun Qualification

    Here’s one to enjoy on Labor Day!

    Howard


  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    rintinglen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Orange, VA NOW
    Posts
    6,492
    As a big J frame fan, I loved this one. I have a 640, a pair of 2 inch model 60's, a model 38, a model 342, and a 5 " 60-18.
    And Howard, that was some great shooting.
    I also loved the Bianchi 9R. I wore one out back in the 80's with my old back-up, M-37, I could draw and fire in less than a second from that rig as a shoulder holster. I have one for my Colt Agent , but I am now too, uhh, manly? I have a hard time reaching the butt these days. My arm seems to have gotten shorter.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    6,063
    Entertaining and informative as always.

    Also a testimonial as to why I do not believe a revolver using clips is a proper fighting tool. I have always said group linking cartridges together and adding a loose bendable piece of metal or plastic to the headspacing equation does nothing good for revolver reliability.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    I am the viewer who sent you the Illinois course. Glad to be of service.
    I also see you used another of my suggestion in this course, by using an easily concealed snub nose revolver. Detectives who carry concealed need to qualify as well.
    This course was easy compared to some of the others. Still you performed very well.
    Nicely done.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    7,439
    Kudos, I'm a huge fan of the snubnose revolver as a self-defense tool. I really enjoyed that video.

    35remington beat me to the comments on moon clips in revolvers used for combat, but I'll second what he said. A moon clip allows for a very fast reload but a bent clip will tie up the gun and that is unacceptable in a combat role. The moon clip in the gun isn't the problem, it's the spare carried for a reload that is susceptible to damage. Moon clips are good for competition. For the street, the chance of a bent clip poses too much of a risk for me.
    HR, your recovery from the empty chamber was exactly how to handle that issue, on a DA (or DAO) revolver you just keep pulling the trigger until it goes bang ! Well Done!

    The S&W 940 is an excellent collection of the traits that make a snubnose revolver such a great fighting tool: No exposed hammer spur, DAO, stainless steel construction, very "snag-proof" external contours, rock solid reliability and capable of good accuracy.

    Thank You for that video. Well done, good to see a snubnose and good shooting.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,384
    This was a perfect course too use the 5 shot j frame on , still an excellent choice for small hide out gun .
    Oh and tell your daughter she got two thumbs up for her beautiful job on the piano.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Posts
    455
    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I am the viewer who sent you the Illinois course. Glad to be of service.
    I also see you used another of my suggestion in this course, by using an easily concealed snub nose revolver. Detectives who carry concealed need to qualify as well.
    This course was easy compared to some of the others. Still you performed very well.
    Nicely done.
    Thank you! I really appreciate your help!

    Howard

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Posts
    455
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    Kudos, I'm a huge fan of the snubnose revolver as a self-defense tool. I really enjoyed that video.

    35remington beat me to the comments on moon clips in revolvers used for combat, but I'll second what he said. A moon clip allows for a very fast reload but a bent clip will tie up the gun and that is unacceptable in a combat role. The moon clip in the gun isn't the problem, it's the spare carried for a reload that is susceptible to damage. Moon clips are good for competition. For the street, the chance of a bent clip poses too much of a risk for me.
    HR, your recovery from the empty chamber was exactly how to handle that issue, on a DA (or DAO) revolver you just keep pulling the trigger until it goes bang ! Well Done!

    The S&W 940 is an excellent collection of the traits that make a snubnose revolver such a great fighting tool: No exposed hammer spur, DAO, stainless steel construction, very "snag-proof" external contours, rock solid reliability and capable of good accuracy.

    Thank You for that video. Well done, good to see a snubnose and good shooting.
    You're welcome! One thing I always do is check the clips I'm going to be carrying before I use them. Obviously, I didn't do that with the ones I was using for the video, but I've never had that problem with clips I actually use for defensive carry.

    Howard

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Posts
    455
    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    This was a perfect course too use the 5 shot j frame on , still an excellent choice for small hide out gun .
    Oh and tell your daughter she got two thumbs up for her beautiful job on the piano.

    Will do. thank you!

    Howard

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    6,063
    One of the other problems with clips is the (hopefully unbent) one already in the gun is not safe from causing misfires.

    Should the cartridges shift rearward in the cylinder, like when the user is taking an upward angling shot after being knocked to the ground or some such, the firing pin not only has to move the cartridge to be fired forward, but the adjacent cartridges in the adjacent cylinders. Such leads to a light firing pin strike and, once again, an elevated chance of a misfire.

    Said by a guy who has experienced precisely that by modeling it. Ain’t no way no how it is gonna get a chance to replicate itself on my watch when it may matter. No clips for me.

    As for carrying clips, I used to carry them in pockets when shooting afield, but bent so many in so doing it soured me on them as any type of reload. In the gun or as a reload a clip makes a reliable revolver less so as compared with the rimmed cartridges they really should be using.
    Last edited by 35remington; 09-02-2019 at 02:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Posts
    455
    For whatever it might be worth, I don't recall ever having a misfire in any of my revolvers that use a clip.

    Howard

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    LUCKYDAWG13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Northern Illinois
    Posts
    3,386
    Thank you great video will have to try it with my 637
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    7,439
    It has been some time since I had a S&W 940 in my hands but I do recall the chambers are cut with the requisite "lip" in the chamber so that the cartridge will headspace on the case mouth just as it does in a semi-auto pistol chambered for 9mm. It is possible to fire the S&W 940 without moonclips but extracting the empty, rimless casings without a moonclip is problematic, to say the least.

    Unless the revolver in question had excessive end play or headspace (normally the distance between the rear of the cylinder and the recoil shield when using rimmed casings), it's unlikely the firing pin would be forced to push the cartridge forward, along with the adjacent rounds in the moonclip when firing.
    However, 35remmington's scenario of the firing pin being robbed of energy by being required to push the cartridge, and its neighbors, forward is not unheard of. It's less likely to occur in moonclip type revolvers that have the correct chamber profile so that the casing headspaces on the case mouth and not just the moonclip.

    The real problem with moonclips is the spare ammunition carried for a potential reload. The potential of bending a moonclip while it's out of the gun is real and as evidenced in the video, does occasionally happen.
    I've heard people say that they carry their spare full moonclip in a pill bottle or some other container to protect it from damage but that practice negates the advantage of a speedy reload using a moonclip.

    Enough of that:
    I REALLY like the S&W Centennial series revolvers ! They are excellent fighting tools. The all stainless 640 (38 Special) and 940 (9mm) are very stout little DAO revolvers. The 9mm loading does provide some extra energy over the 38 Special loading but that advantage was somewhat eclipsed by the later .357 mag versions of the 640.

    The early 640 and the 940 models were built with the 1 7/8" barrel while the later 640 models had the 2 1/8" barrel (this coincided with the introduction of 357 mag models of the 640).

    The 940 was in production from 1991 to 1998 and it just didn't sell as well as hoped. One must look at the 940 in the context of the time when it was introduced. In 1991 there were very few sub-compact, locked breach pistols chambered in 9mm. (the Kahr didn't come out until a few years later). There was a market for people that carried a primary pistol chambered in 9mm and wanted a back-up chambered in the same round. In addition to being able to use a round common with your primary gun, there was also the economic advantage for some officers that had access to free 9mm ammunition.

    Ultimately the 940 was overshadowed by the availability of very small, lightweight pistols chambered in 9mm. Revolver fans that didn't need/want the 9mm loading stuck with the conventional rimmed 38 Special Centennials and other snubnose revolvers. The excellent 940 was just a little too much of a niche revolver.

    As a back-up gun that would probably never be reloaded in an emergency, the 940 shines. As a primary gun, the moonclip becomes the Achilles heel of the 940.

    Interestingly, there were some Ruger Speed-Six models chambered in 9mm and the SP101 in 9mm was discontinued and then re-introduced a few years ago. The Rugers are not in the same class as the S&W J-frame Centennials but they are interesting models.

    HR, Thank You for the video and the discussion. And thank you for sharing that cool S&W 940.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 09-03-2019 at 09:46 AM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Posts
    455
    You are most welcome! As proof of what you said about the 940, I originally purchased mine in the early 90's as a back-up gun to my primary 9mm semi-auto. It rode in an ankle holster, and I always felt good about having it there.

    Howard

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    7,439
    Quote Originally Posted by Hrfunk View Post
    You are most welcome! As proof of what you said about the 940, I originally purchased mine in the early 90's as a back-up gun to my primary 9mm semi-auto. It rode in an ankle holster, and I always felt good about having it there.

    Howard
    And I'm a little envious that you have one and I do not.

    I did own an early 640 and wished I had held onto it. I elected to replace it with a lightweight 442 but for a time I owned both the 640 & 442. Those Centennials are great guns.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    10,158
    My 940 is chambered differently ala the Ruger India Models and will shoot 9mm with clips and .38 S&W without.

    Attachment 247752Attachment 247753Attachment 247754Attachment 247755Attachment 247756
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    7,439
    That's neat!

    Takes advantage of the rim on the 38 S&W cartridge. I guess if you count the thickness of the rim, those cartridges are pretty close in casing length. Pretty slick.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    6,063
    Actually, P and P, the misfires I spoke of occurred with revolvers having chamber shoulders. It is the slack itself and the accumulated drag placed on the firing pin blow when it must move more than one round that is the problem, and the slack exists either way when the cartridges are rearward.

    Heavier rounds and steeper angles and dirty chambers all compound the problem possibly in combination in some instances.



    Carrying a moon clipped revolver is problematic enough IMO. Carrying one with dirty chambers and clips is doubly asking for problems.

    Said by a guy who’s had gunked up chamber and firing residue buildup cause problems sooner than when the identical revolvers used their rimmed substitutes. Yes, I tend to shoot clipped ammo....a lot.

    DA operation with the slightly lesser acceleration of the hammer as opposed to SA operation also increases the problem, and only DA operation is relevant when a revolver is really needed.
    Last edited by 35remington; 09-03-2019 at 08:18 PM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,384
    Outpost75
    Did your gun come chambered like that for 9 and 38S&W or did you modify it ?

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    10,158
    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    Outpost75
    Did your gun come chambered like that for 9 and 38S&W or did you modify it ?
    I modified because I had the appropriate reamer from Dave Manson and had personal knowledge of how the Ruger leftovers from the 9mm French order were refurbed to fill the India order and I have one of the Ruger revolvers from that period, which I purchased as an employee at the time.

    VERY simple mod which can be done by hand if you have the correct reamer. PM me with your email address and I can send .pdf of reamer print. Or send your cylinder to John Taylor, as he has the reamer I had done to mod my S&W 940 and to also do a .380-200 rook rifle for me.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check