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Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Carcano and Gain twist barrels

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Statesboro, Ga
    Posts
    9

    Carcano and Gain twist barrels

    Hey fellers-
    Iíve got the chance to buy a 6.5 Carcano pretty cheap ($50) and while I donít NEED to load for another oddball round, Iíve got a little ďCheedonoĒ money (as in, She Donít Know I Got It) and I could use a little project before deer season.

    All that said, does anyone know, definitely, when (or if) Italy did away with the gain twist rifling in the 6.5? Iím guessing on the purpose-built carbines, like the 91/28(?) and the 91 Troop Specials, but I also know that some of the guns (maybe the 91/24?) were simply cut down rifles.

    Before I lay down my hard-earned shekels, Iíd like to have the best chance of decent accuracy on a gun most folks condemn before they ever shoot.

    Unfortunately this gun has been sporterized and the barrel length is about 18 inches - within a hairís breath of what a lot of the carbine barrels were. The other way Iíve heard is by looking at the rear sight - again, in this case, the original rear has been removed. Any ďfor sureĒ way of knowing, short of cleaning rods and counting twists?
    If it helps, the gun is a Beretta-stamped gun from 1929.
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    614
    I own an FNA/Brescia carbine from 1941 and I'm about certain it's gain twist rifling. I've never heard or read that they changed the rifling?

    I can see the gain in the twist looking down the bore

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    swheeler's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Montana
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    I think (KNOW)the 91-41 Rifles went to conventional rifling twist of about 1:8, I checked mine. I don't think you can see the gain twist with the naked eye, although there will be some that will imagine they can after reading their rifle has gain twist! Human nature you know
    Last edited by swheeler; 08-27-2019 at 06:45 PM.
    Hell, I was there!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    614
    Yeh...I can see the change in twist....I just pulled the bolt on my 6.5mm carbine and looked.

    Not so apparent looking down the bore from the muzzle....easier to see from the breech end. The rate of twist obviously ramps up towards the front. I can't really tell if the lands/grooves gain at a constant rate from breech to muzzle....but it's obvious by mid-bore the twist is tighter than the chamber end. This a 'cavalry carbine' with attached bayonet approx. 18" barrel

    Looking from the muzzle it is noticeable to a degree comparing the angle of the lands from front to back....but at a casual glance looks like any other rifled bore.

    On interesting thing I did just notice....this Carcano has a lot of 'free-bore' ahead of the chamber...like maybe 3/4" past the chamber before the rifling starts....never noticed that before!!….probably to accommodate the really long/heavy military bullets

    Not all that educated on the Italian Carcanos….so couldn't comment on longer barreled rifles/short rifles/carbines as to just how much or whatever rate of rifling might be whacked off on a Bubb-job. Could always be a re-barrel project if it won't shoot?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    nekshot's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
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    swmissouri
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    2,998
    I don't get why you would buy a gun you feel is below par? I personally like these actions because alot of neat cast type cartridges can be worked thru the action . If you don't have a shop and some basic metal work tools I would say pass on the "junk" and hopefully some body with vision for the gun buys it. And at that price that is a naughty steal. Sure hope your not buying it from a widow or such!
    Look twice, shoot once.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    Way up in the Cascades
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    All the pre-World War II 6.5mm weapons have right hand gain twist rifling, 19.25 to 8.25. 7.35mm weapons have constant right hand 10 inch twist rifling. (Source: The Book of Rifles, W.H.B. Smith & Joseph E. Smith).

    I have a 1920s 6.5mm carbine, and the gain twist rifling is very noticeable when viewed from the breech with the bolt removed.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    swheeler's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^ this here
    Hell, I was there!

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    390
    If it is a 6.5mm with fixed sights made after 1940 it should have a constant twist rifling. There may be an exception.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
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    I'm going to borrow "Cheedono".
    And I would buy a working Carcano for $50!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Statesboro, Ga
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    9
    Thanks! I actually like the Carcanos, just never had the chance to do anything with them. Yeah, it might be $50, but then, add in brass, dies (even used ones), and the inevitable search for parts and pieces and that $50 turns into $150 real quick.
    On the other hand, it will keep me out of trouble for a little while, and the Boss Lady likes that.

    I’ll keep you guys posted on what happens, but it might be a bit with the boy home for 10 days before he goes to MCT at Geiger.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Proceed with caution. Cheemayno!

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    northeastern washington
    Posts
    251
    just a point ive read that carcano's have an over sized bore, so slug and size to match. Hornada makes a special j=word just for them.
    Shaune509

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    857
    I acquired a 6.5 Carcano carbine recently, then gathered all the materials needed to handload ammo for it. This included dies, shell holder, brass and j-word bullets. From having read about this caliber having an oversize groove I picked up 2 bags of Prvi Partizan .268" projectiles and started with them first. Poor results, they grouped like buckshot and gave pressure signs with starting powder charge loads. I already had some .263" bullets for another rifle I own and tried them. Instant groups and no pressure signs with starting loads. Increased the powder charges slowly and got the same good groups with only modest pressure signs. These Carcano carbines were built with a normal 200 meter "battle zero" meaning a high point of impact relative to the point of aim. Cured this with a Brownell's replacement (very tall) Mauser front sight. Once installed I fired groups and gradually reduced the sight until aim and impact suited me. Now this Carcano carbine uses common .263" bullets and hits where it looks.

  14. #14
    Moderator

    Pressman's Avatar
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    May 2008
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    My first Carcano was a 6.5 carbine with beautiful wood. It was a Terni that I think was 1941. It turned out to be a cut down rifle with gain twist. The sort barrel might hit a target at 25 yards, with the boolit going sideways.
    I had it rebarreled to 7.62x39 and converted to single shot.
    I ended up selling the gun in Des Moines 16 years ago, I would really like to know what happened to it.

    Always check the twist on any carbine purchase.
    Antique Reloading Tool Collector, Historian and Writer
    Newsletter editor: Antique Reloading Tool Collectors Association
    Archive manager, Antique Reloading Tool Collectors Association
    email: pressman@antiquereloadingtools.com
    www.antiquereloadingtools.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check