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Thread: Two species of humanity

  1. #81
    Boolit Master

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    AMEN Bro Char-Gar; AMEN!!

  2. #82
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Old Texas saying..."Throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one that howls is the one that got hit."
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  3. #83
    Boolit Master
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    I see, feel, smell, taste, hear, measure, weigh, test and study things I know to exist to learn about them and how they work. I have failed to find any of these things work on God, just everything else, so I conclude that there is no God. But, that still does not prove or disprove the existence of God. The Bible is a book and many people write books so it proves nothing. I would very much like to prove there is a God as He offers everlasting life but I find no reason to believe other than I want to. This is not good enough for me as I know there are a lot of things I want that are not going to happen. So for all that say they know God does or does not exist, prove it. I Know that I KNOW very little but I try not to state that I know things I cannot prove. I believe that if something does exist it should be possible to prove it.

  4. #84
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_McD View Post
    You really think you have a different “heart and soul” than unbelievers?? Get off your high horse and turn to scripture. All have sinned and fall short... that means you too. Your beliefs do not change your worthiness, you still fail as hard as the rest of us.

    When you pull your head out of your backside, you will realize you are not helping your cause. I do not desire to be my own god, and yet I still search for proof. You have created a false dichotomy.

    So much is wrong with your core understanding of biblical tenets. I would suggest less church and more Bible.
    Friend, since your a master of scripture, prove by scripture, that one can be saved outside of Christ and his church! If you are going to quote scripture, put it into context.

    Romans 3

    But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    Rom 5:12-

    Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
    For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Yes, we all sin, are sinners, but in Christ we are justified. If your not follwing Christ, then, no, your hearts not in the same. You must have faith....

  5. #85
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    For the record: I do not think I am better than anyone else, but I do think I am different from many folks. I am a believer and they are not. My faith tells me I am Heaven bound and they are not. Different yes, but better no. I am just a sinner saved by Grace.

    "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, I once was lost but now am found". I wish all humanity would accept the saving GRace of our Lord Jesus Christ, but that is their choice, not mine. I can only hope.

    Brothers, do not let unbelievers, scoffers and enemies of Christ, intimidate you with false accusations of arrogance, pride, elitism and the like. They will use any low and underhanded approach to shake your faith and pull you down. They very often masquerade as folks seeking answers to questions in order to draw you in. Do not be fooled by their charade. They are the wolves among us.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 09-13-2019 at 12:55 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  6. #86
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_McD View Post
    I again submit that just because you were given a gift does not make you better than any unbeliever...

    If I gift you 2 million dollars, does that change your ability to manage money?? NO, you simply received a gift. So what makes you think you are able to give spiritual advice? You are a wretch like the rest of us, quit acting like a pompous fool.

    You are not “justified” by any actions you have taken. You do not deserve any gift you have received. Further any gift you received does not change your sinful nature

    It is indeed a heart issue, but it takes humility to realize your heart is no different than mine.
    I'll gladly be counted a fool for Christ sake all day, any day. Thank you. Yes, hearts are all the same in the respect that all sin and fail and have the same opportunity, but they are not the same in the ability to accept the proof and believe the word, and follow Christ. I'll refer you to Jesus parable of the sower. The believers in Christ "saved" are still sinners, but will be justified through Christ, unbelievers will be lost. If you gift me 2 million dollars and I use it to start fires, wipe my rear, or build a compost heap, what good did the gift do? ALL are offered the gift, few receive it!

    ps. You failed to provide the sculptural references for salvation outside of Christ.

  7. #87
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I see, feel, smell, taste, hear, measure, weigh, test and study things I know to exist to learn about them and how they work. I have failed to find any of these things work on God, just everything else, so I conclude that there is no God. But, that still does not prove or disprove the existence of God. The Bible is a book and many people write books so it proves nothing. I would very much like to prove there is a God as He offers everlasting life but I find no reason to believe other than I want to. This is not good enough for me as I know there are a lot of things I want that are not going to happen. So for all that say they know God does or does not exist, prove it. I Know that I KNOW very little but I try not to state that I know things I cannot prove. I believe that if something does exist it should be possible to prove it.
    In interesting statement, a very clear repudiaton of concept of faith. I appreciate honesty, even if I do not agree with what is said.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  8. #88
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Let me see if I have this right. If you hold a firm Christian belief, you are supposed to pretend you do not, in order to not alienate those who do not believe. If you are convinced that you know what you know, then that is offensive to others. "Don't offend me and I might believe you" seems to be the mantra.

    If Jesus and the Apostles followed that train of thought, then there would be no Christian faith to offend anybody. Jesus offended a WHOLE bunch of people and that is what put him on the Cross. The Christian faith by it's very nature, is offensive to many,many people. Being inoffensive, should never be the goal of any faithful follower of Christ.

    "If my preaching offends you, maybe you need to be offended". It matters not if I am liked by the faithless or are offensive to the same bunch of folks. What matters to me is the faithful proclamaton of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My evangelistic ministry on three continents has born to much fruit, to believe I am ineffective, because some unbelivers on a rinky-dink gun board think I am to strong in my belief for their taste.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 09-13-2019 at 01:57 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  9. #89
    Boolit Master


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    Would you please give me the title /author of some "real scientific books" that prove the theory of evolution. I would like to read them.
    In my comments I wrote "I can not grasp" the theory of evolution. I feel I have to do what I believe is right for my life. But you imply that I should believe like you to be correct. Isn't that self righteous?
    I ask, if I live my life according to the Bible how will that hurt you?
    I will add one comment that I hope makes you think about your position. The brilliant minds of 500 years ago thought the the world was flat. Could evolutionists be wrong? Could the Bible be wrong? Both are possibilities but I must go with what "I" believe. You may do the same. I will pray for you.

  10. #90
    Boolit Master
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    I am not criticizing anyone's beliefs when I ask this question - I just have to know. If you don't believe in evolution, then do you believe that everything that exists today was created exactly as it is today?

  11. #91
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    Friend, since your a master of scripture, prove by scripture, that one can be saved outside of Christ and his church! If you are going to quote scripture, put it into context.


    Rom 5:12-

    Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come. .
    I question that sin entered the world through one man.

    It seems to me the "original" sin occurred in Heaven. And many were involved... In some of the things I have studied, the stars may have been both stars and angels, and they were created on the same day....the fourth day.

    Now, on the 6th day, "God saw all He had made, and it was very good." By this, I assume that God was not aware of any discord within in His creation.

    Satan and one third (not an insignificant number) of angels were cast from Heaven onto the earth sometime after the 6th day....or at least that seems logical. And they were cast out because they had sinned...pride...the first sin.

    Interestingly, some have concluded that eating of the forbidden fruit occurred a few days after the sixth day. So, within a few days, evil had been manifest in Heaven and Satan (and his fallen angels) were cast onto the earth to tempt Adam and Eve.

    An archangel and his following of angels committed the first sin and those sinners were cast onto the earth. Sin did not start with man, but in Heaven.

    If I have interpreted this chain of events incorrectly please guide me.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  12. #92
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I question that sin entered the world through one man.

    It seems to me the "original" sin occurred in Heaven. And many were involved... In some of the things I have studied, the stars may have been both stars and angels, and they were created on the same day....the fourth day.

    Now, on the 6th day, "God saw all He had made, and it was very good." By this, I assume that God was not aware of any discord within in His creation.

    Satan and one third (not an insignificant number) of angels were cast from Heaven onto the earth sometime after the 6th day....or at least that seems logical. And they were cast out because they had sinned...pride...the first sin.

    Interestingly, some have concluded that eating of the forbidden fruit occurred a few days after the sixth day. So, within a few days, evil had been manifest in Heaven and Satan (and his fallen angels) were cast onto the earth to tempt Adam and Eve.

    An archangel and his following of angels committed the first sin and those sinners were cast onto the earth. Sin did not start with man, but in Heaven.

    If I have interpreted this chain of events incorrectly please guide me.
    In the scriptures I posted, is the author speaking of ALL sin, or THE sin that lead to mankind paying the price of a physical death, and possibly an eternal one? Ask yourself, is the author addressing all of creation, or men who might be saved?

  13. #93
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_McD View Post
    Your response was expected. It is also a reason why I do not adhere to the “Christian” label. I don’t want to be mistakenly associated with your rhetoric.
    I don't think your being mistaken for anything you aren't. Friend, my prayer is God bless you with an understanding heart.

  14. #94
    Boolit Master


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    To your question,Is everything that exists today the same as when it was created.
    My answer is no. After the sin in the garden, thorns and thisiel ,pain in child birth,and man would labor to feed himself.
    Before the flood,the earth did not know rain. The earth was moistened from the ground.
    The tower of Babel introduced different languages.
    At the time of Pelag the Bible says something like " the nations were divided". This may indicate that at some time all land was connected and broke up into our present continents.
    In Genesis "giants" are spoken of and the ages of mankind was in the hundreds of years.
    So there has been several changes since creation. The first 12 chapters of the Bible covers about 2000 years of which we are not given much detail. Most creationist consider the earth to be 6,000 to 6500 years old.

  15. #95
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    I have no desire to convince anyone they are mental cases. I thought my question was sincere and valid so I'll repeat it and add to it.


    I believe in evolution. If evolution is true then man existed before Christianity was a solid belief. I often hear Christians state you can't get to heaven unless you accept god.

    So, did every person on this earth who died before Christianity was a belief go to hell since they knew nothing of a god they must accept?
    Christians believe that those that died before Christ was born could go to Heaven under a different set of rules. With Christ a new set of rules was established and they believe we must give up the old way for the new way. In this I believe they are wrong, the old way is still valid as are other ways. While Christians believe that the only salvation is thru Christ. Some of them even know that that means or are learning. Some will come to a bad end because they don't really want to know what sacrifices are required if you love Jesus.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  16. #96
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Interesting banter. Can anyone prove their point? Is there a God? If so, prove it. Is there no Supreme creator? If so prove that. I don't have the answer nor have I found anyone than that can positively prove their point. Oh, and don't bother trying to prove anything without proof of references
    It might not prove the point but there is God the creator of the Universe. Why, because there is a universe, if the universe spontaneously appeared out of nothing then the Universe is God.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  17. #97
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_McD View Post
    To me that shows they are rather close. For every Catholic, there is an "unbeliever". They are popular and also your target audience, why the condescension?
    It looks like the numbers are 70% Christian, 30% other for the U.S. sort of 2 to 1.

    For the world the numbers are more like, 47% Christian, 53% other more like 1 to 1.

    Breaking it down more 47% Christian, 25% Muslim, 19% Hindu and 7% Buddhist if you ignore all the nonbelievers.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  18. #98
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    Humans have very little ability to comprehend a million years much less many millions of years.
    And the earth is an estimated 4.5 billion years old - that is billions with a B.
    If you cannot grasp a lot of things it may just be a reflection of your inability to get past your religious programming. You really have to be self deceiving to believe that you should or can know and understand everything that has happened in the history of the planet. Your bible and your "grasp" cannot compare to the knowledge gained by science in the last 400 years. Try reading real science books for the next 40 years or as long as you have had the bible drilled into your head. If you cannot do that then you really do not want to know the truth about the universe.
    I believe that Humans do have the capacity understand and appreciate millions or even billions of years. You just have to create a mental frame of reference. We can understand the difference between Millionaires and Billionaires or even budget deficits of trillions of dollars. Humans can understand but most don't try and aren't interested in learning.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  19. #99
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Christians believe that those that died before Christ was born could go to Heaven under a different set of rules. With Christ a new set of rules was established and they believe we must give up the old way for the new way. In this I believe they are wrong, the old way is still valid as are other ways. While Christians believe that the only salvation is thru Christ. Some of them even know that that means or are learning. Some will come to a bad end because they don't really want to know what sacrifices are required if you love Jesus.

    Tim
    The New Testament is clear that the faithful in the Old Testament were "saved" through faith resulting in appropriate behavior (not perfect, but a live not characterized by sin)---see Hebrews. This is exactly the same for New Testament believers. Everyone that has or will be saved is because of Christ's death and resurrection. The difference is that New Testament saints know the mechanism of their salvation while the Old Testament saints did not. The "rules" never changed and no one was ever saved by following The Law or offering animal sacrifices--see Romans and Hebrews.

  20. #100
    Boolit Master
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    [QUOTE=Thundarstick;4726236]Friend, since your a master of scripture, prove by scripture, that one can be saved outside of Christ and his church! If you are going to quote scripture, put it into context.
    .……….QUOTE]

    How about Deuteronomy? You don't believe that Moses was saved outside of Christ and his Church?

    "Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do in Egypt-to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel"

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

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