LEE 452-230-TC with lube groove in 45 Colt?

[greenjoytj]

The LEE Precision 452-230-TC cast bullet the version with the single lube groove that’s used in the 45 ACP pistol cartridge.
Will the bullet function in a revolver chambered for the 45 Colt cartridge?

The lack of a crimp groove on this bullet has me worried that applying a tapper crimp might not be enough to hold the bullet from moving out of the case under recoil and locking up cylinder rotation.

Crimping over the shoulder edge onto the truncated cone would not prevent bullet being pushed into the case by the spring in a rifles tube magazine unless the case had a compressed charge of black powder to support the bullet.
The small lube groove on this bullet probably rules out it’s use with black Powder at least in a long barrelled rifle.

I see that Ruger makes a New Vaquero 45 Colt with a conversation cylinder for 45ACP so this bullet must work in a revolver. Anyone tried the bullet in their revolver?

[Ed_Shot]

I have a 45LC/45ACP Blackhawk. Both Lyman 452374 and 452460 shoot great in a 45LC case over Promo 6.0~6.5 gr. using a light roll crimp. I agree that the lack of a crimp grove might be an issue in a tube-mag rifle.

[mdi]

My first thought is there is no crimp groove on that bullet. Some will say to just taper crimp, some will say just roll a crimp into the side of the bullet and both have worked for me with light loads. If I only had some of these bullets on hand, yes I would shoot them (when I first got my SAA clone I had no 45 cal revolver bullets so I did load some 225 LRN that I normally use in my 1911. Accuracy wasn't great and occasionally a bullet would "walk"), but if I were looking for a mold, nope, I'd get a proper design with a crimp groove...

[Larry Gibson]

That 452-230-TC has become my favorite 45 pistol bullet. I use it extensively in 45 Colt and also in 45 ACP, 45 Cowboy, 45 Schofield and 45 Government loads. The 45 Gvt origianally was loaded with a 230 gr bullet for use in Colt SAAs and S&W Schofield revolvers.

In the 45 Colt I load the 230 TC bullet over 7 gr Bullseye for use in my Uberti SAAs, Uberti M73 and Contender SS. That load runs right at 900 - 910 fps in the SAAs (4 3/4 & 5 1/2" barrels), 1135 fps out of the Uberti 20" M73 and 1078 fps out of the 10" Contender barrel. The measured psi of that load using the Contender barrel and the Oehler M43 PBL is 16,700 psi. That is 1500 - 2000 psi less than the "classic" 45 Colt load of the 454190 over 8.5 gr Unique. Accuracy out of all 4 firearms is excellent.

In the 45 Colt i seat the bullet to an OAL of 1.60" which puts the case mouth (Winchester, R-P and Starline) about half way up the front drive band. Since I seat and crimp in separate stages (Dillon SDB) a sslight roll crimp is put on the case mouth. I've not had a bullet jump in the revolvers or bullet set back in the M73 tube at all.

I also use that 230 TC bullet as my "standard" load now in 45 ACP loaded over 5 gr Bullseye. The measured psi in a Contender barrel via the Oehler M43 PBL is 18,900 psi. I use that load in my M1911s, my M1917/25, one of the Uberti SAAs with a 45 ACP cylinder, the Contender barrel and my M98 Mauser Rhineland conversion. Accuracy is also excellent in all the firearms.

[MGySgt]

Larry, are you using PC'ed or normal lubed boolits in your .45 loads? I have the same Lee 6 cavity mold and have used a bunch of those for .45ACP loads in my 1911's and my Model 25-2, 1950 Target model.

I get real tired of sizing and lubing. :>)

[Larry Gibson]

I use normal sized and lubed bullets. With the range lead + lead + tin alloy My 6 cavity mould drops them at .4535 +/- so for the 45 Colt, Schofield and Gvt I just lube in a .454 H&I die with BAC. I size .452 and lube with BAC for the ACP loads.

I ran a very extensive test with the 230 TC bullet in 45 ACP [Contender, S&W M1917/25, Colt M1911, M98 Rhineland rifle] and 45 Colt [Contender, Uberti Evil Roy SAA, Uberti M73 rifle] with PC'd bullets [4 different kinds of PC] vs regular lube (BAC). The end results showed no decrease/increase in accuracy, no decrease/increase in psi and severe PC fouling in several of the firearms vs no fouling with the regular sized/lubed bullets.

I also did a comparative test time it took to PC vs time to size/lube in a Lyman 450 lubrasizer. As I recall we compared the time it took to do 200 bullets because that's all his "system" [oven, pans, screen, etc., allowed at one time to coat and "cook" them. I was done in about half the time as he was and had the sized/lubed bullets tacked in a nice box already to load.....and I didn't have any mess to clean up. I've also tested numerous other PC'd bullet of 225, 6.5, 7mm, 30/31 cal, 35 cal, 44 cal and 45 cal that others have sent me. None gave better accuracy at any velocity than regular sized and lube cast bullets. Some gave PC fouling problems. All performed quite well when I sized and lubed them......Some like to PC and claim great things for it. So be it if that's what they want to do. PC hasn't shown me anything yet least of all being any "easier" or "quicker" to use but I keep tracking it. Who knows, maybe someday...….

[Bazoo]

Larry, thank you for your contribution to this conversation and for sharing your results with PC. I too have yet to jump on the PC bandwagon.

To the original thread query, I use the TL452-230-TC in 45auto. If the TL design was an option you could easily roll crimp in the upper most TL groove.

[Bass Ackward]

I get real tired of sizing and lubing. :>)

Oh’boy. Jar heads everywhere are rolling in their graves.

I hate that slug. Problem is, my 45s love’s them. Your dies & the size of the slugs you shoot dictate crimp with whatever powder speed you choose. But I do advise lube. ��

[greenjoytj]

Thank you everyone for sharing you experiences with the LEE Precision 452-230-TC bullet.
I have purchased the 6 cavity commercial single lube groove version. I just hope mine doesn’t drop overly large diameter bullets. My experience with a SAECO #955 255 gr RNFP that dropped large dia. bullets was to have the crimp groove nearly smeared way and the lube groove smeared narrower. They were still very useable, just didn’t look so nice after sizing. I could still roll crimp into what was left of the crimp groove. I need to explore how to get cast bullet to drop with a smaller diameter.
So I moved on to a Lyman #452664 mold that has been working very well to cast, size and shoot with BP & smokeless in my M73 24 inch barrel.

[Bazoo]

My experience is lee is right at or a touch undersize stated diameter with my ww alloy.