Soft lead for 300 Blackout?

[mattri]

This may have been covered and/or is a really stupid question so please bare with me:

Looking to shoot subsonic cast boolits out of a Ruger American with a 1:7 barrel.

Most explanations of terminal ballistic results from subsonic rounds mention poor expansion, energy transfer etc.

Most subsonic 300 Blackout rounds use heavy "match" type bullets like Sierra Match Kings, Hornady A-Max etc.

Suppose a cast boolit using a soft alloy in a 200gr(+/-) with a large meplat and a deep, wide hollowpoint. Something like this:

http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?m...products_id=27

in a heavier boolit.

Seems like this would be great for thin skinned game, coyotes to whitetails, at moderate ranges even at subsonic speeds.

Thoughts?

[megasupermagnum]

Assuming you are talking in the 1000 fps range, that bullet from GT is still a little hard for what you want. The principle is ok, although a thinner nose profile might be better. You are going to want to use very soft lead. 20-1 might work, although softer would definitely better if you were hoping for a 100 yard shot.

[mattri]

Exactly- a 200gr + soft lead boolit with a giant hp.

[megasupermagnum]

There shouldn't be anything wrong with it, just expect 357 magnum handgun performance. Basically meaning you can't shoot in the rump and expect to get to the lungs. Any reasonable shot it should work just fine.

[Moonie]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...9ourb87tljn0o4

[Gamsek]

Have same Ruger American Ranch, 300blk, started with different cast bullets. Your bullets looks like 312-440 Sledgehammer, 150grs. They didn’t feed from my magazine but shoot good. All my first tests with ww alloy in HP blew the nose.

I moved to 50% ww/50% pure plus tin, then 80% pure and finally settled on pure lead with 5% tin. I started to get nice expansion at subsonic but going over 1150fps mostly shredded nose.

I used 130grs 311-410 and 312-159 Hunting to hunt roebuck, chamois and fox with success at subsonic and 1150fps speed with 6grs of TrailBoss. Making 130grs subsonic I used 4.5-5grs TrailBoss.

I shoot this buck with 311410 pure lead GC

[Lloyd Smale]

its really not even that level of performance. the 357 will push a 200 to that speed but starts with a bullet that's 35 cal instead of 30. It would probably push that 200 grain bullet 200 fps faster in a carbine. expanded your 30 cal bullet is probably going to end up where the 357 starts. that said the 357 has marginal deer hunting power. Many think its not even expectable. I love the black out. Ive got 3 of them. But in my opinion there about as marginal for deer as I want to go using supersonic jacketed bullets. I don't understand some peoples need to use the smallest least powerful possible combination to kill a deer.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with it, just expect 357 magnum handgun performance. Basically meaning you can't shoot in the rump and expect to get to the lungs. Any reasonable shot it should work just fine.

[mattri]

Gamsek, excellent post. thanks for the pics and the real world experience- will be picking your brain.

Very interested in how various lead types react at different velocities/bullet types.

Soft lead and a big hollowpoint seems to shed petals, perhaps a harder lead would be better in this application- thoughts?

At the same time maybe a soft lead in a flat nose without the hollow point etc might perform well at subsonic velocities.

[megasupermagnum]

Gamsek, excellent post. thanks for the pics and the real world experience- will be picking your brain.

Very interested in how various lead types react at different velocities/bullet types.

Soft lead and a big hollowpoint seems to shed petals, perhaps a harder lead would be better in this application- thoughts?

At the same time maybe a soft lead in a flat nose without the hollow point etc might perform well at subsonic velocities.

No, antimony (from wheel weights) shreds petals. Pure lead would probably hold together at the low velocities. I really do not understand how a person could look at those pictures and think a 357 magnum could do any better. The best examples are probably expanded to a 1/2" or more. That Unicorn clearly didn't walk it off.

[popper]

Using a can? Why subs? I use 145 cast GCd & 150 Gold dots(- 1300 fps expansion), they work fine super. So do 125 sst, 110 vmax or barnes tssx. I can hit what I aim at, subs not so easy. 9mm & 40sw take pigs at 25-50 yds, probably more if you have good sights. It's a rifle, treat it as such. This is a carbine with Rx7 and 145 gr 50/50 FN cast - upper right - others were different loads..

[BigBore45]

I would think 10-12 BHN. Would be about right for a none hollow point. Should be good for deer out too 100 yards or so if you do your part.

[Gamsek]

Gamsek, excellent post. thanks for the pics and the real world experience- will be picking your brain.

Very interested in how various lead types react at different velocities/bullet types.

Soft lead and a big hollowpoint seems to shed petals, perhaps a harder lead would be better in this application- thoughts?

At the same time maybe a soft lead in a flat nose without the hollow point etc might perform well at subsonic velocities.

10:1 alloy low speed-to hard for perfect expansion, but do you need that perfection? It will kill well

311410 130grs going fast, 1250fps, green are all 10:1, blue is pure lead/gc.
Green deep HP, blue middle length Hp.
Even pure after 1150 lost nose. Every alloy has its limitations.

Subsonic 20:1.

312-159 Hunting MP molds and 311410.

Some cast photos. Wild goat 1y old made 1 step, 151grs HP cast subsonic.

I have shoot our game with 7mmRM, 338 LM, 222,223,22-250,7x64....and that cast 300 Blk became just a part of my hunting because I bought RAR in 300 Blk just to be shoot with cast, practice with subsonic bullets. After I saw what cast bullet can do in HP form at low velocity- I start to test them on smaller animals. They work. I limit myself to 100m. Most of my hunting is with tsx in various calibers.

[popper]

Unless you are going suppressed IMHO subs are irrelevant. Yes, BO (whisper) was developed for suppressed (military) subs. How much leade do you need on a running yote @ 75 yds to even hit it with a sub? I got a running hog @ 25 with hard alloy 40sw TC @~950 but it took 3 shots. I tried 2 additional shots with hold-over - no hits. Went through to rump, broke a leg, exited under the jaw with a bunch of bone. Still went ~100yds and left a small blood trail. Shot that cast and jacketed 115 9mm into a rock pile, 9 was busted to pieces, 40SW was like a beer can. Anything leaves blood shot meat but I'd rather not pick out shrapnel from my burgers. How much difference does a bigger hole really make? Ever see what a 70gr 243 does to a deer? 14 kids lost a lot of doe & spike meat on their hunt. Couple even got 250# hogs. Most were one shot kills but 100yd track, neck shots not allowed. They field processed their kill. I did shoot a pig carcass with 185gr 50/50 RD style, 40-45 ROUND exit hole that leaked a goodly amount of green fluid. Nothing from the entrance. Still would have leaked if the hole was smaller. Yes I have shot heavy subs from my BO carbine, still loud! Without a specific reason for subs, their just tacticool.

[odfairfaxsub]

I wouldn’t say they are irrelevant. You can shoot softer lead sub, you can use 7 gr less powder, you can shoot the brass til you loose it, hardly any real kick, easier on the bcg, I can shoot it into my snail trap that can’t handle a super sonic 300 blackout going 2100 fps. I would say from a shootin perspective it’s relivant, from a hunting perspective it’s still relivant. W softer lead that is.

[popper]

With 20:1 GC would probably be needed. Those heavy flat nosed have a BC near 0.1, so drop at range. 10:1 pictured expansion was maybe 30%? Is the HP worth it? A stationary deer @ 75, maybe. Ever sneak up on a coyote? Go to 300blktalk and hunting section to see what people think of subs for hunting. I shot at a stationary hog @ 25, 185gr super. Friend laughed as he saw the hog DUCK the shot! I've shot the UMC220 subs, intended for CQC use. They work. Animals aren't dumb, the jump or change direction when startled. 2 legged varmints aren't quite as good. Yes, heavy subs work, no doubt but can you make them work is the real question. Took 3 shots at a running hog (25yds - 40sw XD) to get him. Friend showed me vid of 7 guys shooting 308,BO & whatever they had at a running hog - lots of dust. Choices depend on real work results. Or you can tinker for the fun of it.