Anyone use 45 Colt against large game?

[Outpost75]

MGySgt,
Why do you say not to do it? Other than slightly less volume, so slightly less black powder, there won’t be a difference in the performance. The balloon head cases make a difference if using smokeless, but I don’t understand why you warn not to do it using black powder.

The main concern with balloon-head cases, if you get them as fired brass, you don't know whether or not they may have been fired with mercuric primers. If they have, there is no way to effectively clean them to restore the brass to safe condition. Brass cases which have been fired with mercuric primers will be brittle and will frequently blow the head, even with standard pressure loads. My original 1906 Colt SA has a loading gate which is not numbered to the rest of the gun for that very reason.

Unless you are working with new factory-primed brass you know has non-corrosive, non-mercuric primers, or you pull down, decap and reprime old ammo which has never been reloaded, you don't know what you have. American commercial primers after WW1 were generally non-mercuric. Non-corrosive primers came into use in the late 1920s. If the fired primers are white tin-plated and of WRA, Western or Remington-UMC headstamp, you are probably OK.

If the primers are copper colored, or if white metal but headstamped U.S. Ctg. Co. in the old orange and blue boxes, I would not take a chance on them. Sell to a collector.

[derek45]

Anyone who's interested in revolvers, handloading, handgunning, etc., should read this book.

cheap at amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Sixguns-1961-.../dp/1477661697

[fcvan]

Some years ago, I bought an H&R 1871 chambered in 45 Govt. Yup, it was a Govt. before everyone called it Colt or even Long Colt.

It took some time before I was able to find a Ruger Vaquero with the Large frame.The original owner only shot wax as it never saw actual boolits. I've shot some stout loads through both which were fun as heck.

My favorite load was a round ball load with Bullseye, right at 900fps from the carbine. Quiet like a 22lr, hard hitting as one might expect. I don't know what the Vaquero would do as I hadn't bought it yet. Dad has a 1899 New Frontier which has only seen black powder loads. Dang if 45 Govt. isn't the bees knees.

[MGySgt]

MGySgt,
Why do you say not to do it? Other than slightly less volume, so slightly less black powder..........................................

What are the 3 ways Black Powder can be set off??? Spark, static electicity and compression. Is there enough less volumn difference that might make an event happen due to less volumn? I don't know, but I would consult some expert advice before I loaded 40 grains of Black Powder in a 45 Colt case and topped it off with a 250/255 gr RNFP and touching it off with a primer. I have been looking for an old Lyman reloading manual I have that shows Black Powder loads in mondern cases (solid head) - can't find it, haven't seen it in years either. Before loading Black in modern day cases I would get a modern day Black Powder manual that gave appropriate loads.

I like my guns and my hands in one piece. Remember Black Powder is a class A explosive not a propelant like smoke less powder.

[Lonegun1894]

MGySgt,

Thank you for the explanation of the different primers, I didn’t know all that.

However I have to disagree with you about black powder. I’ve been shooting muzzleloaders for about 20 years now, and have also used plenty of black powder in assorted cartridges. So not a newby on that front. Here’s the interesting thing about black powder. You don’t have to worry about it in your ammo as long as there is no airspace. Airspace acts as an obstruction and can ring your chamber or cause other over pressure issues. So the only things you really need to worry about is consistency. Stuff it as full as you want, leaving just enough space for your cards/wads (if you’re using them), and your bullet. I have loaded my .45 Colt and my .45-70 by literally dumping powder into the case until it was overflowing, seating my bullet on top, and crimping it in place. The firearms used were a Ruger Vaquero and a H&R Buffalo Classic, and this was safe in my guns at least, accurate, and never showed any pressure signs. As to setting off black powder, a spark will do it, like you said. Static I’ve tried and never have succeeded in getting ignition. And compression, once again, I disagree. A friend of mine and I tried to compress it on a 10 ton press, and failed to get ignition after a couple dozen tries, so if compression will do it, it takes more than 10 tons of pressure. I seriously doubt any of us get enough compression on our ram rods or loading presses. As always, we’re all responsible for what we each do, but just sharing what I’ve seen.

[megasupermagnum]

What are the 3 ways Black Powder can be set off??? Spark, static electicity and compression. Is there enough less volumn difference that might make an event happen due to less volumn? I don't know, but I would consult some expert advice before I loaded 40 grains of Black Powder in a 45 Colt case and topped it off with a 250/255 gr RNFP and touching it off with a primer. I have been looking for an old Lyman reloading manual I have that shows Black Powder loads in mondern cases (solid head) - can't find it, haven't seen it in years either. Before loading Black in modern day cases I would get a modern day Black Powder manual that gave appropriate loads.

I like my guns and my hands in one piece. Remember Black Powder is a class A explosive not a propelant like smoke less powder.

Blackpowder cannot be ignited by compression. The idea of setting it off from a static charge from a person is shaky at best, and seemingly can't be replicated in any test I've seen. Sparks can obviously set it off. Blackpowder is a low grade explosive AND a propellant. Blackpowder can be compressed greatly with little change in how it burns. I've never taken it this far, but if you compress blackpowder enough, it burns slower not faster.

There is no danger at all in reloading with blackpowder. It is as close to goof proof as they come. Don't leave air space. That is the one and only rule anyone needs to know, and even then a tiny bit of room is not going to cause a problem.

[Wayne Smith]

FWIW - I have loaded compressed 40 gr Goex FFG in 44-40 cases (modern Starline) and bulged the cases slightly. They all fired fine, but that much compression is a lot of work. I dropped back to 38gr and am satisfied. Your only problem compressing the old load is the strength of the side of the case. Otherwise your fine, by my experience.

[MGySgt]

Thank you all for your first hand knowledge - call me a wimp or a p@##$, I don't care, I load accordaning to published load manuls that have been pressure tested. I do not want to to the exception to the rule and wind up with a damaged firearm or worse.

Now I will sit down and shut up.

[Bazoo]

Interesting thread drift, thanks to all for sharing.

[Outpost75]

The static electricty danger is well documented in loading commercial quantities of ammunition, and in igniter packs used for separate loaded artillery and squibbs for aviation ordnance. https://books.google.com/books?id=Yr...niters&f=false

You don't want to use a steel powder measure for measuring black, I have a custom all-brass rotor which fits my RCBS Little Dandy for loading BP .45 Colt and .44-40 rounds, and a brass plug which screws into the expander die body which I use for powder compression before seating the bullet. I also have a brass 10-inch drop tube for the Little Dandy used for loading BP, and I use a Bounce drier sheet on the plastic powder reservoir and also have a ground wire running from the measure and the loading machine to a copper buss bar which grounds the other equipment in the shop.

[Lonegun1894]

Thank you all for your first hand knowledge - call me a wimp or a p@##$, I don't care, I load accordaning to published load manuls that have been pressure tested. I do not want to to the exception to the rule and wind up with a damaged firearm or worse.

Now I will sit down and shut up.

Please don’t “sit down and shut up”. That definitely wasn’t my intention. Was just trying to be helpful. For the most part, especially when dealing with smokeless powder, your advice to stick to published and tested loads is exactly spot on. But black powder is kind of a different animal and one that few are used to actually dealing with nowadays.

[MGySgt]

Lonwgun1894 - All I was doing was pointout that there is a difference in the load density between ballon and soild head cases and you can get into trouble loading black just as quick as you can with smokeless if certain safety precausions are not followed. As note there are some very different saftey precausions to take with black than with smokeless.

Have a nice day.

[megasupermagnum]

I certainly did not mean to offend MGySgt. However I'll disagree with you on loading blackpowder. You cannot fit too much into a case, any case. If you can still chamber the round, it is safe. It might not be the best shooting, but it is safe. The case capacity does not matter. FFFg, FFg, Fg, it is all safe.

Safety precautions for loading black powder: don't leave air space

There is not enough time in the world to describe the millions of ways you can screw up with smokeless powder.

If you are really worried about static electricity, run a wire from your powder measure (if you use one) to your bench, and then to ground.

Blackpowder is the most idiot proof propellant ever invented, and I'm surprised so many reloaders have forgotten this.

[Lonegun1894]

There is a tiny bit of extra space for more powder in a balloon head case, and you can increase load density by increasing the compression, but it makes no difference in safety due to the low pressures involved.

[MGySgt]

My whole point is to follow saftey precautions when loading - by having a black powder manual (hopefully the precautions were read) the appropriate precautions would be taken as mentioned by Outpost75 before the handloader gets into trouble.

I am not upset - but this is the same reason I do not post much here, or anywhere, any more - too many 'Duty Experts' that haven't read safetuy precautions.

[Outpost75]

My whole point is to follow saftey precautions when loading - by having a black powder manual (hopefully the precautions were read) the appropriate precautions would be taken as mentioned by Outpost75 before the handloader gets into trouble.

I am not upset - but this is the same reason I do not post much here, or anywhere, any more - too many 'Duty Experts' that haven't read safetuy precautions.

Aye Gunny!

The reason I never worked retail is that fully 20% of the customers walking in the door are too stupid to own guns!

Expect we may have travelled in similar circles. Did you ever know Ole Dad Wincentsen?

Attachment 248946

After I left Ruger I worked with him and Maj. Jim Land, and Maj. Cutty on the M16A1E1 project and some others at MCDEC in the 1980s.

[MGySgt]

While I was at MCDEC most of the 80's, I do not personnaly know any of them. I believe they were all at Weapons Training Battalion and I was on Main Side at Computer Sciences School as an Instructor.

By the Way - It is Master Gunny - a Gunny is an E-7 I am an E-9.

Aye Gunny!

The reason I never worked retail is that fully 20% of the customers walking in the door are too stupid to own guns!

Expect we may have travelled in similar circles. Did you ever know Ole Dad Wincentsen?

Attachment 248946

After I left Ruger I worked with him and Maj. Jim Land, and Maj. Cutty on the M16A1E1 project and some others at MCDEC in the 1980s.

[Gray Fox]

I am a life SASS member with an early 4 digit badge number who has shot both cap and ball revolvers and cartridge guns in .45 Colt, in the hundreds of rounds. My operating manual, if you will, is Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Six Guns of the Old West", published in 1997. He covers the BP loading process and includes tested load data for most of the cartridges of the period. I'm a retired CW04, myself, and a former instructor as well, and agree with your basic ideas. GF