Casting copper or ? bullets

[Rizzo]

So, I am from California where we now have a law that you cannot use lead for hunting ANYTHING.

My mind wandered and starting wondering what else we could cast to make non lead bullets that would work for hunting.
Copper melts around 2000 deg. F so that would mean probably using a forge of some sort to melt that stuff and also a stout steel mold I guess.

I suppose Zinc could be used, it melts near 800 degrees F but the weight is about 2/3rds of Lead weight.

Lead is so ideal with it's lower melting point and higher weight. Gr-r-r-rrr.

Thoughts?
Thanks

[poppy42]

Move to another state

[gwpercle]

Bismuth might work . It's cost is worth it to save all those endangered Condors..
By the way how's that working out ?

Thought's...as long as CA. is controlled by the Left...you are screwed blued and tattooed .
The only way to win is at the voting booth .
Good Luck.

I've been saving all my zinc wheel weights just in case someone comes up with a mould , method and way to cast usable zinker boolits with.
Gary

[Conditor22]

▲▲▲ Lead-free
https://www.rotometals.com/low-melt-fusible-alloys/ ---- CB sponsor

[Burnt Fingers]

You're not going to be casting copper bullets in a iron mold. The melting point is barely above that of copper. The strength however goes away a lot quicker than that.

Your choice is zinc, it's heavier than copper anyway.

[ThomR]

I'd start stocking up on zinc wheel weights. Just be careful how fast you are pushing a zinc bullet. From what I understand if you push a zinc bullet faster than 1,900 fps it causes the bullet to make zinc gas, and that is toxic.

[John McCorkle]

I believe shrinkage of the molten vs solid in copper is substantial enough to make this pretty impractical. Sizing would be a BEAR and you'd have to have custom graphite molds that would quickly wear out.

Far better pursuit would be to get a lathe and cnc and turn your own from stock. To cast perfect stock without any bubbles oxidizing voids or imperfections you'd need a jewelers vacuum chamber but still doable. It'd be alot of work and investment but man it would be cool. Some of the most impressive projos for hunting coming out now is cnc copper (like discreet ballistics subsonic expanders)...truly fantastic product but it would take alot of very specialized equipment to get started

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[country gent]

It wouldn't take a lot to turn copper bullets from bar stock. weight is lighter for a given length. It could be done on one of the mini lathes on a small scale. test runs for production a small screw machine could be set up. solid cooper slugs are much harder than copper jacket lead core so pressures may become an issue. Bismuth has been used for shot gun shot, How it would work for a solid bullet is the question. using the cast able metals bismuth, zinc, tin antimony mix like solders are the problem will be proving what they are in the field if checked. The officer wont have an xrf gun with him, Hes going to go on the looks and let the courts sort it out. SO not only do you need a visibly different material but one that's also use able. Maybe the solid turned copper slug in a nylon sabot. Or maybe navel artillery technology ig a hard slug with soft driving bands.

A small automatics 2 or 3 spindle screw machine set yup would make alit of bullets fast. But would take tooling / cutters made for the task. These machines normally don't bring much mire than scrap prices now with the cncs. For bullets 3 tools would be required a form for the ogive / point. a turning tool for the body and last a cut off to finish. If hollow points are desired a form drill for the cavity also. Since these can be turned in one chucking concentricity, balance should be ideal. This type machine running full coolant and proper feeds and speeds would drop a bullet every 10-15 secs from each spindle, it may be faster than casting. A machine with stock feeder and air chuck would run basically unattended.

[gwpercle]

▲▲▲ Lead-free
https://www.rotometals.com/low-melt-fusible-alloys/ ---- CB sponsor

That's an interesting link...they seem to have 5 lead free alloys .
Sounds like just the ticket for CA Casting

[mdi]

Copper can easily be machined, and "home machinist" tools can be used, no need for a very expensive high tech lathe. Not too difficult to turn a piece of brass/copper round stock to .001", or less, variation. A home lathe is much easier to work with and way less expensive than a furnace and tools capable of casting copper/brass.....

Shotgunners have been dealing with "no lead" shooting longer than CA's laws and I looked at a shotshell reloading vendor's catalog and I saw they offered lead alternatives for shot; bismuth, "heavy shot", tungsten and a "proprietary" Balistic Products shot, "ITX". I haven't any info on casting bullets with these alloys, but in a CA resident's case perhaps one would work. I've read "reports" here on cast zinc bullets and don't think I'd bother...

[Bookworm]

Be careful using lathe-turned copper projectiles. I can foresee getting a felony charge for using "armor-piercing" bullets.

[FredBuddy]

A few years ago, I stopped at a little shop in Millersburg, ohio and was surprised
to find the owner had a setup as described above by Country Gent.

He used copper round stock and the machine would drop a finished bullet
every few seconds. He demo'd it for me.

I was interested, but at 2 bucks a pop I decided I was lucky to
be back in Ohio.

Yup, move out of CA, or stock up on factory monolithic ammo.

[Idz]

Are you allowed to make your own hunting ammo in CA? A friend from CA told me only CA-certified ammo is allowed for hunting so he could not make his own even if it used lead-free bullets.

[T_McD]

At some point bullet buttons, 10 round magazines, and lead free projectiles get you to move. Or you simply ignore state law when it is unduly prohibitive.

[DonMountain]

Simple, just hunt out of California. You can still target shoot there with lead bullets. Just hunt with them somewhere else.

[Rcmaveric]

I have been following the Zinc bullets for a while. More out of curiosity. If I were in your shoes i would persue that. Only down side is you would need iron equipment and not steel. Steel holds up better. Zinc is one of the metals that will readily disolve other metals like water dissolves sugar.

For an alloy, i would start with zinc wheel weights. Add 2% tin and 2% aluminum (the tin will help with brittleness and aluminum will help with mold fill out). Dont worry about shredding the aluminum cans, just chunk in the whole can in, it will dissolve like sugar in water.

Use iron molds (not sure about brass, aluminum may be okay for a little bit but it wont last as long). You going to have to run those molds hot.

For a mold, i would look for a heavy for caliber type molds. That way you get closer to your normal bullet weight.

I wouldnt bank on expansion as your killing factor on game. You would need some testing on that. Like is it going to fragment, does it need a hollow point ext. You can play with the alloy to see what works good. Can adding more aluminum or tin help.

I have seen great things about the lack of need of lubrication in low velocities. Sizing is going to be a PITA.

I have been waiting and watching for someone to try these experiments. I guess i could, but call me lazy and low on funds. Pluss I have access to lead so havent really had a need other than curiosity.

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[megasupermagnum]

I see a few guys cast shotgun zinc "zlugs", and they seem to work out well. Personally, if hunting out of state was out of the question, I would look into casting bismuth alloy bullets. Both zinc and bismuth alloys are brittle, and any kind of expansion would not be desirable. In a handgun or larger rifle, no biggie. In a small caliber rifle, I wouldn't use it. It's expensive as heck, but I'm surprised I haven't seen guys cast bullets of pure tin. I would think that could produce a rather good, malleable bullet. If you are looking for shotgun shot, bismuth is the way.

[44Blam]

I am pretty sure you can powder coat them and call it Bizmuth...

[Kevins750]

Lead free bullets must be on the California "acceptable list" for hunting, making your own would technically not be legal.

[Walks]

Only "non-toxic" Projectiles are allowed. That includes Shot Shells and .22 Rimfire.
We already have Steel or Bismuth Shot Shells.
All the above are available as components.

As far as .22 Rimfire ammo goes, it's My understanding that is already being worked out.

We haven't been able to hunt with Lead in over 50 years, with the exception of .22 Rimfire ammo, and shot shells until July 2018.

Barnes, Hornady, Nosler all make non-toxic Rifle bullets and at least Barnes makes .357 & .44 Revolver bullets. I don't know about Sierra & Speer.

I have a box of bullets for just about every Caliber I load for. I may never be able to hunt again, but at least I'll be ready if I can.