I'm a pagan too

[EDG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GEb9r8aqVQ

[1hole]

Okay. I didn't know that was ever a question!

[EDG]

It was never a question unless you have a very simple outlook and can only think within the limits of your religious brainwashing.

The movie illustrates a fact.
WWII illustrated it even more. If god is really in control why did he permit the death and the horrors of the war to be inflicted on hundreds of millions of innocent people. Yeah sure Hitler, the Nazis, the Japanese militarists and Stalin's Soviet Union committed colossal crimes. But what about the other innocents young and old alike that suffered? There was no justice dealt to mankind by any loving god.
My dad as a 17 year old did nothing that deserved putting a flame thrower in his hands to burn other teenagers with.

Okay. I didn't know that was ever a question!

[dverna]

Probably better posted in the Pit than here...IMHO.

[dannyd]

It was never a question unless you have a very simple outlook and can only think within the limits of your religious brainwashing.

The movie illustrates a fact.
WWII illustrated it even more. If god is really in control why did he permit the death and the horrors of the war to be inflicted on hundreds of millions of innocent people. Yeah sure Hitler, the Nazis, the Japanese militarists and Stalin's Soviet Union committed colossal crimes. But what about the other innocents young and old alike that suffered? There was no justice dealt to mankind by any loving god.
My dad as a 17 year old did nothing that deserved putting a flame thrower in his hands to burn other teenagers with.

All these things happen because of the free will of man. If you Dad like Myself was there at 17 he put himself there. People call us volunteers.

[EDG]

Free will ? That is not a good argument. That argument does not make any sense at all.
Every non-believer on the planet has the same free will even if he was born in the Americans before 1492.
Dogs and cats have free will as does every bird, reptile, insect and fish. No - free will is just a life line you guys use when you have nothing left.

Actually you are very wrong about my dad. Someone else put him there.
He never volunteered for a flame thrower or to burn other humans alive.

All these things happen because of the free will of man. If you Dad like Myself was there at 17 he put himself there. People call us volunteers.

[Sig556r]

Probably better posted in the Pit than here...IMHO.

Ditto ^^^

[EDG]

I disagree. It is at least as germane as any other comment about those who do not believe in your imaginary friend in the heavens.

Probably better posted in the Pit than here...IMHO.

[Blackwater]

EDG, if you think GOD caused those problems you enumerate, and many more, then you have some thinking left undone. Did not God and Christ tell us that the wages of sin is death? It's not God who causes these things. It's MAN's haughty and insolent spirit, and his failure to follow reason and logic, and all the outlines left by a loving Savior.

If you want to blame it all on God, you have the freedom to do that, but there's a reason most don't believe such. It's man's fault, and God merely lets him have his way sometimes. It's like a good parent allowing a child to proceed with a relatively dangerous action, because the child seemingly can't be dissuaded from it, so the child can learn the lesson the hard way. All of us have to learn the hard way sometimes in our lives, but making it a standard policy for our lives is rather foolish, isn't it?

[dannyd]

Free will ? That is not a good argument. That argument does not make any sense at all.
Every non-believer on the planet has the same free will even if he was born in the Americans before 1492.
Dogs and cats have free will as does every bird, reptile, insect and fish. No - free will is just a life line you guys use when you have nothing left.

Actually you are very wrong about my dad. Someone else put him there.
He never volunteered for a flame thrower or to burn other humans alive.

Other people may put the flame thrower in his had, but they didn't draft 17 year olds.

[EDG]

But according to law at 17 he was not considered an adult.
He was deemed by others old enough to kill people and to be killed but he was not old enough to vote.

You do not get so many brownie points if you are a kid since by definition you may not be responsible for what you do.

Other people may put the flame thrower in his had, but they didn't draft 17 year olds.

[dannyd]

But according to law at 17 he was not considered an adult.
He was deemed by others old enough to kill people and to be killed but he was not old enough to vote.

You do not get so many brownie points if you are a kid since by definition you may not be responsible for what you do.

If you are in the military at 17 them your an adult. Been there done that, your responsible for all your actions and you can't blame others. You sound like a Baby Boomer it's everyone else's falt. That would explain your hang up about God.

[EDG]

Oh not at all bubba. You make an argument that you are an adult at 17 yet the law says you are not.
What I said flew right over your head. Just because you volunteered at 17 did not make you special in the eyes of the law. You do not get extra points for that. When you volunteered you were still a 17 year old who was in my dad's words "young and stupid". He fought the Japanese nearly 2.5 years (Guadalcanal, Tarawa and Saipan), was nearly killed several times, was wounded and sent home permanently disabled. He was back in high school in 1945. He was not yet 21 and he was still not old enough to vote or buy beer.
That much is clear in black and white. It is very apparent that you have no real argument at all.
You cannot even grasp the contradiction of being commanded to kill someone yet you do not have the right to vote....give us a break

If you are in the military at 17 them your an adult. Been there done that, your responsible for all your actions and you can't blame others. You sound like a Baby Boomer it's everyone else's falt. That would explain your hang up about God.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm not going to get into the religion aspect of this BUT, the movie "Breaker Morant" is one of my favorite movies.

It's based on a true story and while not completely accurate in a historical sense, it's still a great story.

But here's the REAL kicker - How many people have seen "A Few Good Men" and realized that movie is almost an exact remake of Breaker Morant set about 85 years later ?

[dannyd]

Oh not at all bubba. You make an argument that you are an adult at 17 yet the law says you are not.
What I said flew right over your head. Just because you volunteered at 17 did not make you special in the eyes of the law. You do not get extra points for that. When you volunteered you were still a 17 year old who was in my dad's words "young and stupid". He fought the Japanese nearly 2.5 years (Guadalcanal, Tarawa and Saipan), was nearly killed several times, was wounded and sent home permanently disabled. He was back in high school in 1945. He was not yet 21 and he was still not old enough to vote or buy beer.
That much is clear in black and white. It is very apparent that you have no real argument at all.
You cannot even grasp the contradiction of being commanded to kill someone yet you do not have the right to vote....give us a break

How did you do in the military? Were you drafted or did you volunteer?

[JimB..]

EDG, who said that God is in control? If he/she was, then there wouldn’t be evil, and as you know there is plenty of evil. God has a plan, I’ve found it best to listen quietly and try to stay as close to plan as possible, not to please or appease a magic wizard in the sky, but because it makes my life more enjoyable in the long term. Of course I screw it up all the time, it’s part of being human. Heck, here are days when I wonder if my entire part in his plan is to be the bad example for someone else, to be the guy that screws up and pays the price, allowing others to learn from my mistakes. I’ve generally decided that we each take turns in that role.

FWIW, I think that my uncle had a story similar to your fathers, although the details were never known except from investigations undertaken after he died. He came home from the war, the only survivor of four brothers that served in europe and africa, and he’d done and seen terrible things. (the only brother that didn’t serve had lost a lung in childhood) Physically he was fine, but he lived in a room that he rented in a small house from the day he returned till the day he died. He had no children which isn’t surprising because he did not speak. Nobody ever knew what was in his head or what it was that he couldn’t say. He worked menial jobs and lived a simple life, almost certainly tormented every hour of every day by the memories of what he’d done and what he’d seen, heard, felt, and even smelled.

Life isn’t fair, and I get that you’re angry about what your father did and what was asked of him, but neither that nor the evil that caused those terrible decisions to be forced upon him at a young age is evidence that God does not exist.

I am no evangelist, I am not well spoken, and I frankly have little concern over what you or anyone else chooses to believe. I think that a person’s beliefs are something that they need to discover on their own. I wish you and your father all the best on your paths and only suggest that you try not to evaluate things looking through a fog of anger.

[dverna]

Good post JimB

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I am still trying to make sense of the OP. A 7 minute excerpt of a movie I never saw?

[Sig556r]

EDG, who said that God is in control? If he/she was, then there wouldn’t be evil, and as you know there is plenty of evil. God has a plan, I’ve found it best to listen quietly and try to stay as close to plan as possible, not to please or appease a magic wizard in the sky, but because it makes my life more enjoyable in the long term. Of course I screw it up all the time, it’s part of being human. Heck, here are days when I wonder if my entire part in his plan is to be the bad example for someone else, to be the guy that screws up and pays the price, allowing others to learn from my mistakes. I’ve generally decided that we each take turns in that role.

FWIW, I think that my uncle had a story similar to your fathers, although the details were never known except from investigations undertaken after he died. He came home from the war, the only survivor of four brothers that served in europe and africa, and he’d done and seen terrible things. (the only brother that didn’t serve had lost a lung in childhood) Physically he was fine, but he lived in a room that he rented in a small house from the day he returned till the day he died. He had no children which isn’t surprising because he did not speak. Nobody ever knew what was in his head or what it was that he couldn’t say. He worked menial jobs and lived a simple life, almost certainly tormented every hour of every day by the memories of what he’d done and what he’d seen, heard, felt, and even smelled.

Life isn’t fair, and I get that you’re angry about what your father did and what was asked of him, but neither that nor the evil that caused those terrible decisions to be forced upon him at a young age is evidence that God does not exist.

I am no evangelist, I am not well spoken, and I frankly have little concern over what you or anyone else chooses to believe. I think that a person’s beliefs are something that they need to discover on their own. I wish you and your father all the best on your paths and only suggest that you try not to evaluate things looking through a fog of anger.

Nice viewpoint...

[1hole]

It was never a question unless you have a very simple outlook and can only think within the limits of your religious brainwashing.....

WWII illustrated it even more. If god is really in control why did he permit the death and the horrors of the war to be inflicted on hundreds of millions of innocent people. Yeah sure Hitler, the Nazis, the Japanese militarists and Stalin's Soviet Union committed colossal crimes. But what about the other innocents young and old alike that suffered? There was no justice dealt to mankind by any loving god.

So you would have us believe you think (?) the evils of men from all corners of the world are directly from the hands of a cold and helpless Christian God? Not hardly.

My dad as a 17 year old did nothing that deserved putting a flame thrower in his hands to burn other teenagers with.

You speak - again - looking at the world backwards and upside down while safely snuggled in the modern comforts of your current warm home. I say your father did what he and millions of others felt was right at the time with the information he had. In that, I hate it was required but I'm proud of him and all those who served with him. And you can be sure that God hasn't yet done all he will do in his response.

Your father - and millions of other "kids" like him, gallantly rose to oppose murderous world wide tyranny that was rampantly killing millions of other kids and babies and women and the old, sick and injured. Of course that demanded your father use that flame thrower to do what he could to both protect his comrades from the other sides 17 yr. olds and to stop the spread of evil.

So, today the moral question for you and your father, and without too much dreamy ex post facto 'intellectual' musing and circular belly button contemplation, is NOT and cannot be, "How many kids did he kill with that flamethrower" but "How many kids (on both sides) did he save?"

If you want to sneer at God about the truly awful things governments have called on 17 year old men to do in military service, remember that a lot of us served to make it possible for you and others of your mindset to sneer at your leisure; "You're welcome."

But ... do you think this the best forum for your detached point of view?