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Thread: Interesting reaction time study from 2011

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Interesting reaction time study from 2011

    In researching for something else, I ran across this article & thought it was interesting enough to share here for possible discussion by the forum members.

    My only current comment would be that it gives me something to consider, as well as I think it would be for others here who may someday have the unfortunate opportunity to have to make decisions based on such reactions... Hopefully not, though.
    -----------------------


    New reaction-time study addresses what’s ‘reasonable’ in armed-suspect encounters

    May 26, 2011

    You are confronting an armed suspect, no cover available. He faces you, with his gun at his side, pointed at the ground. Your gun is aimed at him and you’re ready to shoot. He ignores your commands to drop his weapon.

    Are you justified in pulling the trigger before he makes any move to point his gun at you?

    According to conclusions reached by researchers in a unique new reaction-time study, your preemptively shooting under such circumstances may well be considered reasonable by the standards of Graham v. Connor.

    If the offender suddenly points his gun in your direction, you are highly unlikely to get a shot off to defend yourself before he shoots, the researchers documented. Even under ideal circumstances, you probably can fire no faster than simultaneously with the attacker.

    These findings “serve to illustrate the extreme danger that armed suspects present to police officers,” the researchers report. “Even when a police officer has his or her gun aimed at [an armed] suspect and the suspect is not aiming at the officer, the officer is still in extreme danger....

    “The reasonableness standard [set forth by Graham] is based on what a well-trained, prudent officer would do in a given situation.... Our results show that even well-trained officers...with their guns aimed at a suspect cannot reasonably be expected” to react faster than a suspect can raise his or her gun and fire.

    “This is an important study that advances the understanding of the dynamics of deadly force encounters, which often are quite different from the perceptions held by the general public and the media,” says Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Institute. “While the Institute was not involved in this project, the findings are fully compatible with our earlier discoveries regarding officers’ reaction times in life-threatening situations.”

    The new study was headed by Dr. J. Pete Blair, an associate CJ professor at Texas State University and a former interviewer/trainer for John E. Reid & Associates. His investigative team included representatives of the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (ALERRT) Center at the university and was supported financially by the CJ Division of the Texas governor’s office.

    Test Set Up
    “Suspects” in the research were 30 male and female CJ students, averaging about 22 years old and mostly Caucasians. The test subjects were 24 male volunteers recruited from an active-shooter training class at a regional SWAT conference. They averaged nearly 10 years’ policing experience, with nearly five years on SWAT, and were considered “elite...particularly [in] the use of deadly force.” They averaged about 34 years old and slightly more than half were Caucasian.

    Armed with a Glock training pistol that fired marking cartridges, each officer progressed through a series of 10 rooms in an abandoned school, presumably in response to a “generic ‘person with a gun’ call.” In each room, the officer confronted a suspect armed with a similar pistol at a distance of 10 feet. In some cases, the suspect’s gun was at his/her side, pointed at the floor. In others, the gun was pointed at the suspect’s own head in a suicidal pose.

    According to prior instruction, one-fifth of the suspects followed the officer’s order to surrender peaceably. The rest, designated as attackers, were told to try to shoot the officer any time they chose “after an initial command to put down the gun was given.” In all cases, officers had their gun up and on target at the outset of the encounter and were instructed to “attempt to shoot first” as soon as they perceived a move to shoot them.

    Later, the research team conducted a meticulous frame-by-frame analysis of video recordings of 159 of the shooting exchanges.

    Reaction Time Results
    Analysis showed that the suspects on average were able to fire in just 0.38 second after initial movement of their gun. Officers fired back in an average of 0.39 second after the suspect’s movement began.

    Specifically, suspects moved the gun up from their side and fired in an average of 0.36 second and from their head, on average, in 0.40 second. The average officer responded fractionally faster to movement from the side (0.38) than to movement from the head (0.40).

    Statistically, the researchers point out, the hair-splitting differences between these various measurements are inconsequential. The initial gun position “did not appear to significantly affect the firing times of suspects,” the team reports. Nor did it “appear to affect the speed with which the officers fired.” Overall, “officers and suspects appear to have fired at about the same time.”

    The miniscule edge did go to the suspects, technically. Examined case by case, they shot faster than officers or precisely simultaneously in more than 60% of the encounters. “Even in situations where the officer was faster, there was less than a 0.2-second difference, suggesting that the suspect would still get a shot off in most of these encounters,” the researchers state.

    “The process of perceiving the suspect’s movement, interpreting the action, deciding on a response, and executing the response for the officer generally took longer than it took the suspect to execute the action of shooting, even though the officer already had his gun aimed at the suspect.”

    And this was in near-ideal conditions from the officers’ perspective. The volunteers were “highly experienced” and “knew they would be encountering suspects with guns.” The confrontations took place in “well-lit rooms,” with only a single offender, “with both parties remaining stationary,” with no distractions, with no attempts by the suspects to deceive the officers by feigning compliance before shooting, with officers not nearly as stressed as they would be “during an actual life-or-death situation,” and with none reporting “confusing sensory and perceptual distortions.”

    Moreover, “the suspects extended their arms to bring the gun in line with their eyes before shooting in almost every exchange,” rather than “simply rotating the gun and firing.” Thus their assault was slower than a spontaneous street encounter might be. The researchers concede that “many of the elements that occur in real-life shootings” would doubtless add significant time to the average officer’s reaction time.

    The good news in this study concerns accuracy. Suspect role-players, largely untrained in gun-handling, scored hits only about half the time. With their already on target, officers were able to successfully shoot suspects nearly 90% of the time. This is contrasts with actual OISs, where the reported police accuracy rate is “generally less than 50 percent,” the study team notes.

    Conclusions
    “Police officers have a legal right to use force, including lethal force, when it is reasonable to do so,” the researchers state. “An officer may shoot when there is an imminent risk of harm to self or others, or to stop someone who poses a danger to others if allowed to escape....

    “There is a perception amongst some community members that officers are too quick to shoot those who only appear to pose a threat.... There are people who seem to believe that the ‘reasonable’ officer should wait until a suspect with a gun begins to use the gun against the officer before the officer utilizes lethal force. [But] would waiting be reasonable in situations where the suspect has his weapon in hand but not aimed?”

    That’s the critical question Blair’s study addresses. “As our findings show, most officers can’t fire faster than a suspect with a weapon in hand, even if it is not aimed at the officer,” his team writes. Consequently, “we think that an officer who decided to shoot [in the kinds of situations tested] meets the legal definition of reasonableness,” given the “close range of the encounter, the lack of available cover, the failure of the suspect to comply with multiple warnings, and the data” collected.

    The researchers stress, however, that they “do not believe that the findings support” automatically shooting “everyone with a gun” or “everyone with a gun who does not comply.” Armed encounters vary in their details, and “the individual officer must consider the totality of circumstances” in choosing a fitting response, including whether issuing commands is feasible or desirable before firing.

    The researchers believe that certain training implications are clear from their findings. First, they support having officers participate in scenarios similar to those they used to convey “a better understanding of the dynamics involved” in armed confrontations and to “help correct inaccurate beliefs about shooting ability.” Also they believe training should “teach officers how to mitigate the dangers posed by armed suspects” through such means as distance and cover.

    They hope that their findings “will help officers, and those who judge the actions of officers, to make more informed decisions about the reasonableness of officers’ actions” in deadly encounters.

    A full report on the study has been accepted for publication later this year in the peer-reviewed journal Police Quarterly. Publication can be tracked here.

    Meanwhile, Blair has 2 research projects on the board that Force Science News will be following up on in the future. He is underway with a study of room-entry tactics, designed to identify which technique is fastest for revealing subjects hidden in corners, best suited for accurate fire from officers, and least conducive to hits from offenders.

    He plans also to comprehensively catalog and analyze active-shooter incidents. Results from the building-entry study, at least, are expected by this fall.


    { About the author - The Force Science Institute (FSI) was launched in 2004 by Executive Director Bill Lewinski, PhD, who has a doctorate in police psychology. FSI conducts sophisticated scientific research studies in human behavior to document the physical and mental dynamics of life-threatening events, including officer-involved shootings. Its findings impact officer training and safety and the public's perceptions of police use of force.}



    Source:https://www.policeone.com/Officer-Sa...ct-encounters/

    Any thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Interesting read.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

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    For the assailant his reaction time is past once the weapon starts moving For you Seeing the start of movement and it registering in the mind and to the muscles is just starting. We did some drills with moving targets and it was amazing how long it took a shooter to react when the target started moving towards them. Another drill was two shooters one towards target one away. when the away guy started running the towards shooter drew and fired. The away shooter stopped at sound of the shot. Amazing how far he traveled ad that was with the shooter knowing what to expect. In a confrontation distance is your friend, concealment good actual cover better. But Getting distance forces accuracy.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks for sharing...
    ...Speak softly & carry a big stick...

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Human reaction time, to visual stimuli, is roughly 200 milliseconds. That is 2/10 of a second, even if you have already decide to shoot and are focused on the initial movement. Add in the time to “decide to shoot” and any hesitation or doubt. No question that the suspect WILL fire first, have to hope he misses. There was a TV show “Brain Games” that put a 100$ bill on the table. 1 person floated their hand a few inches above the bill. A second person was to the side with their hand well away from the bill. The 1st person could not move till the second tried to grab the bill. Every time the 2 nd person was successful. They only had to act, reaction time was not involved due to the “decision” or “go” being in their control. Same reason trap shooting voice release systems include a .2 second delay, to mimic a human “puller”.
    .2 seconds is actually pretty quick, can be .16 up to even .5 seconds for someone tired or in prepared for the event. Part of the human animal, always present and a variable that must be recognized.
    As kids we used to drop a quarter thru a friends waiting fingers. If he caught it he kept it. Generally if he had his fingers 8 inches or so, below where you released the quarter he had a chance, anything less no chance at all. I use that exercise to make my shotgun athletes really understand their reaction time and it’s effect. Most people think they are lots faster than they really are!
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  6. #6
    Boolit Master knifemaker's Avatar
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    Border patrolman Bill Jordon proved the above information given above several times in court trials of officers involved in shootings that were questionable. He showed that if they had waited a second or two prior to shooting, they would have taken a shot from the suspect before getting one off themselves. Those officers were found to have used justifiable homicide in defense of their lives.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    I am surprised this needed to be studied for legal purposes. I mean do people really expect for me to give the bad guy the first shot??

    I would be inclined to shoot as soon as I recognized the offenders gun.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_McD View Post
    I am surprised this needed to be studied for legal purposes. I mean do people really expect for me to give the bad guy the first shot??

    I would be inclined to shoot as soon as I recognized the offenders gun.
    No. They do not expect you to give the bad guys the first shot.
    But, without this kind of study, you will be judged by civilians for shooting a man who just happens to be holding a weapon that isn't pointed at you. Regardless of how many times you tell him to drop it.
    They will say you had the drop on him and jumped the gun.
    This is good info that should be common knowledge.
    Talked to my wife about this. I don't think she can pull the trigger. She said as much (unless the kids are with). I suggested she stop carrying and advised some hornet spray as I've seen suggested by some LEOs here.
    I trained her up from shooting the ground halfway to the target, to putting a full mag on a pie plate without thinking.
    Thought she was squared away mentally, but she isn't.
    Cheese and rice, I thought I had backup. I don't expect much. But figured she could "cover that hallway" while my back was turned.
    Not getting good sleep tonight...[expletive]

    Edit: I should add that... No. It is not ok for you to just shoot everybody you see with a gun.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    If I fill the need to draw my wepon I'm not asking anyone anything
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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sureYnot View Post
    No. They do not expect you to give the bad guys the first shot.
    But, without this kind of study, you will be judged by civilians for shooting a man who just happens to be holding a weapon that isn't pointed at you. Regardless of how many times you tell him to drop it.
    They will say you had the drop on him and jumped the gun.
    This is good info that should be common knowledge.
    Talked to my wife about this. I don't think she can pull the trigger. She said as much (unless the kids are with). I suggested she stop carrying and advised some hornet spray as I've seen suggested by some LEOs here.
    I trained her up from shooting the ground halfway to the target, to putting a full mag on a pie plate without thinking.
    Thought she was squared away mentally, but she isn't.
    Cheese and rice, I thought I had backup. I don't expect much. But figured she could "cover that hallway" while my back was turned.
    Not getting good sleep tonight...[expletive]

    Edit: I should add that... No. It is not ok for you to just shoot everybody you see with a gun.
    If it’s been decided that I need to draw my weapon, and then I notice the dude has a gun... the time for talking is pretty much over.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Old study results from Texas back in the 70's. Same conclusion. Forget which PD it was, maybe Rangers. Conclusion - you haven't drawn and perp has his out, your are shot.
    Whatever!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Consider that this study may have been done to help LEO in their defense of having to shoot a suspect who is armed with a firearm, when a jury is listening to the story/evidence may not understand the threat that the officer "reasonably perceived" and had to react to prevent SBI or death in self defense.

    Next, consider that it was "you" that was in a court because you shot someone in "self defense", and that other person had a firearm in hand, & it is being considered whether "You" were the one who "reasonably" perceived a threat from the other with a firearm in hand & were justifiable in your defense of a possible or actual attack by that other person with a firearm in hand.

    Then it might be good to know that there were studies like this done, "beforehand", to demonstrate the reaction time is so fast that one has literally, "Parts of a second", not " a second or two to make a "reasonable" determination if someone is a threat that requires deadly force or not.

    It might keep someone out of prison for a long time & "that" is why I, personally found it interesting & worth consideration, as well as brought it here for discussion.

    I hope this post might help others understand why this study & studies like it can possibly be worth knowing about since many folks here do carry for protection & may someday need such info.
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Good information. Thanks for posting.
    Don Verna


  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    If this is a valid study that is usable, useful, by defense attorneys in a civilian shooting during home or personal-on-the-street, I find this information useful but frightening. Were I, a civilian, to be confronted by an assailant armed with a firearm, it appears that my options are quickly reduced to: shooting anyone with handgun in hand; probably not shooting that assailant whose handgun is in his belt, and probably not shooting that armed assailant whose long gun requires substantial hands' movement to reach its trigger.

    While assailants with knives in hand who are within 15 feet were not part of this study, other information, based on law enforcement statistical data, appears to show that the victim is likely to be stabbed whether you shoot him or not. - another "shoot anyone with a knife in hand."

    I'm not SWAT. I've not retired from being a SWAT team member. I've not been LE. I've never shot anyone, or shot at anyone.This study and, perhaps, much law enforcement statistical data almost defines me as that trained novice - a civilized tolerant human being - who is going to hesitate, frozen in place, because that's what civilized tolerant human beings do when confronted. That hesitation may get me killed or maimed. Or I've got a dead guy on the floor or the street who hesitated, having decided to flee from me. I've just murdered a man [in my own mind] who had been "up" for a quick smash-and-grab with a gun or knife for show - to scare me into doing nothing. . . . Like I wrote - frightening.
    It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it. Sam Levinson

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