Jeep came out with a fix for the death wobble

[Lloyd Smale]

the ones I bought for my jk were easily twice the diameter as the stock ones. Death wobble on jeeps happens but if you look at the internet youd think 75 percent of them have the problem. When in fact it is very rare. About non existent in a jeep that doesn't have worn steering and suspension gear or modifications to its suspension.

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree that the occurrence of "Death Wobble" is overplayed but it sure is frustrating when you're trying to eliminate it.

I believe part of the perception problem is Jeep is one of the few manufacturers still using a solid front axle so the occurrence tends to be particularized to the Jeep brand. There are other vehicles with solid front axles but in terms of sheer numbers, Jeep has a lot of solid axle/coil spring set ups on the road. So even if the death wobble problem occurs in a low percentage of Jeeps, it's still a big number.

When Jeep went to coil springs on the TJ, they did a pretty good job with that system. Even in bone stock factory configuration that system has a lot of articulation and retains good road manners. But that trailing arm/track rod/coil spring system is a lot more complex than the old leaf spring system.

Lloyd - I could not agree with you more concerning your comment that [death wobble is] "....About non existent in a jeep that doesn't have worn steering and suspension gear or modifications to its suspension. ".
On a well maintained, unaltered Jeep (or any other similar set up); death wobble is rare.

I also believe that the steering damper does almost NOTHING to eliminate death wobble. I'm skeptical of Chrysler's claim that they've "found" the cause and it's the steering damper. I think what they "found" was the simplest (least costly) thing to blame.

I think a lot of after market steering dampers get sold because it is an easy bolt-on, highly visible modification that all of your friends can see when you park your spotless jacked-up truck in the mall parking lot.

The solid axle/coil spring set up used on newer Jeeps (TJ & JK) requires 4 trailing arms (2 on each side) and a track rod to locate the axle. The upper trailing arms are intentionally not parallel with the lower control arms to help control lateral movement of the axle. But there's only so much angle you can add before things start to bind up. The engineers did the best they could within the space they had.
The rest of the lateral control is handled by the track rod. Again, not a perfect solution but one that works well when everything is tight and well maintained.

I think what Chrysler doesn't want to publically admit is this system works well when it's new and has a lot of potentially expensive failure points when it gets worn. That would be an expensive admission in today's litigious society of class action lawsuits and mandated recalls.

[Outpost75]

Another single-point of failure in older Jeeps are the brake lines. On older, high-mileage Jeeps the brake lines are subject to failure by corroding from the inside out. This condition is not apparent to visual inspection, and service techs will only check for leaks and call it good if there are none.

I recently experienced a catatrophic brake failure when a rear wheel brake line on my 2000 year model Cherokee Sport failed. The pedal went all the way to the floor! Luckily the hand brake still worked and I was able to safely get the vehicle off the road and towed to the dealership. Chrysler no longer had replacement brake lines to fit this model, so I had custom ones bent and fabricated. Because of the age and high mileage of the vehicle, I had ALL of the brake lines, both fronts and rears replaced, and not taking a chance by replacing only the one that failed, as the others were an accident waiting to happen. Also replaced wheel cylinders, new master cylinder, etc. It was a BIG money repair.

But I prefer my well-maintained older Jeep to the ones Chrysler is making now.

[sundog]

My first 'ride' was a '46 Willys CJ2, and it had death wobble. Front end parts were good. Steering dampener fixed it. Sure wish I still had it. Saw a good condition '47 in Silverton, CO, a few years ago that also had a steering dampener. Owner said, no problems.

[Petrol & Powder]

Outpost75, I've been there and done that and have the grease stained Tee shirt

At least with a post 1966 U.S. made vehicle you will have a dual piston master cylinder and in theory shouldn't lose both the front and rear hydraulic circuits at once. There will be a lot of pedal travel and it is far worse if you lose the front circuit but you should still have a little braking force from the other circuit.

I've lost a brake line on a vehicle with a single piston master cylinder (twice) and that's really exciting ! One time in a 65 Plymouth and the transmission saved me. The other was in an International Harvester PU and that thing barely went fast enough to even need brakes.

You were absolutely right to replace ALL of the braking system after that failure. It was only a matter of time before another line, hose, wheel cylinder or master cylinder failed. I've seen people patch those things but I don't know how you would ever trust the system again.

[leadman]

I wonder if Chrysler is also going to try to cure the Death Wobble on the towed Grand Cherokees?
Many years ago I had a 2 wheel drive 1973 Ford F250. Three on the tree, Twin I-beam front suspension and no power steering. Had a bad death wobble but normally when just starting out. Damper fixed it.

[Idaho45guy]

Yesterday I fixed all of the issues with my 2005 Yukon. Fixed the AC system leak, the air bag system failure light, the slipping transmission, the consumption of 2 quarts of oil between oil changes, the rattling interior pieces, the broken center console latch, the seats that hurt my back driving more than 100 miles, and the 15mpg...

Attachment 246775

This thing is amazing! Quiet, comfortable, fun to drive, and tight as a drum. Looked at similar vehicles from Ford and Dodge and they were remarkably less refined, less capable, and more expensive.

[Petrol & Powder]

Nice vehicle Idaho45

I can't speak for the new Toyotas but the old ones are good vehicles.

[Idaho45guy]

Nice vehicle Idaho45

I can't speak for the new Toyotas but the old ones are good vehicles.

Apparently, the Toyotas that are still made in Japan are excellent. The newer Tacoma pickups and Tundras aren't. My 4Runner is. A lot of guys on the 4Runner forums were saying that they have had a lot of issues with the US-built trucks, and that is genuinely sad.

[Petrol & Powder]

Whenever someone starts ragging on Toyota I always point out the abundance of news videos that show some incredibly abused Hi-lux in some horrible third world country. (usually with a Soviet DShK machinegun bolted in the bed). That's not the same truck they sell here but Toyota is doing something right. Those things are indestructible.

[enfield]

81 CJ5 , with some play in linkage and crappy tires had "death wobble" now with tight front end and new 12.5 x 33 Mickey Thompson's no wobble , 1952 Willy's all new steering linkage. new bushings in steering box and Firestone MT2's no wobble ( mind you top speed is about 43 MPH !! ) but we still have to replace steering dampers on 2018 F250's that shake you off the road . So the engineers haven't figured it out yet.

[Lloyd Smale]

heck every Silverado ive owned more then 8 years up here in salt country have the brake lines rotted so bad they need to be replaced. Probably true of about every vehicle on the road up here.

Another single-point of failure in older Jeeps are the brake lines. On older, high-mileage Jeeps the brake lines are subject to failure by corroding from the inside out. This condition is not apparent to visual inspection, and service techs will only check for leaks and call it good if there are none.

I recently experienced a catatrophic brake failure when a rear wheel brake line on my 2000 year model Cherokee Sport failed. The pedal went all the way to the floor! Luckily the hand brake still worked and I was able to safely get the vehicle off the road and towed to the dealership. Chrysler no longer had replacement brake lines to fit this model, so I had custom ones bent and fabricated. Because of the age and high mileage of the vehicle, I had ALL of the brake lines, both fronts and rears replaced, and not taking a chance by replacing only the one that failed, as the others were an accident waiting to happen. Also replaced wheel cylinders, new master cylinder, etc. It was a BIG money repair.

But I prefer my well-maintained older Jeep to the ones Chrysler is making now.

[Lloyd Smale]

I also believe that the steering damper does almost NOTHING to eliminate death wobble. I'm skeptical of Chrysler's claim that they've "found" the cause and it's the steering damper. I think what they "found" was the simplest (least costly) thing to blame.

I think a lot of after market steering dampers get sold because it is an easy bolt-on, highly visible modification that all of your friends can see when you park your spotless jacked-up truck in the mall parking lot.

Yup we used to chuckle at guys who ran two and even three of them and even waxed them so they didn't rust and looked cool. Had to have a fancy colored occordian boot on them to in some bright look at me color.

[Lloyd Smale]

Yesterday I fixed all of the issues with my 2005 Yukon. Fixed the AC system leak, the air bag system failure light, the slipping transmission, the consumption of 2 quarts of oil between oil changes, the rattling interior pieces, the broken center console latch, the seats that hurt my back driving more than 100 miles, and the 15mpg...

Attachment 246775

This thing is amazing! Quiet, comfortable, fun to drive, and tight as a drum. Looked at similar vehicles from Ford and Dodge and they were remarkably less refined, less capable, and more expensive.

lets wait for your opinion when its 15 years old. You aren't going where my jeep goes in that rig either. Years ago Toyota made a REAL off road rig. The real land cruiser. They should have retired the name instead of using it to compete with the likes of a Yukon or Tahoe. or expedition. It was about the same as ford making mustangs on fox chassis! Or dodge calling a k car chassis 2 door a Daytona! Probably a good rig but its just another soccer mom sport utility.

[Idaho45guy]

lets wait for your opinion when its 15 years old. You aren't going where my jeep goes in that rig either. Years ago Toyota made a REAL off road rig. The real land cruiser. They should have retired the name instead of using it to compete with the likes of a Yukon or Tahoe. or expedition. It was about the same as ford making mustangs on fox chassis! Or dodge calling a k car chassis 2 door a Daytona! Probably a good rig but its just another soccer mom sport utility.

LOL. What? Fifteen years? You do realize that 4Runners are one of the top vehicles that stay on the road the longest, right? Jeep didn't make that list.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-car...t-300000.html/

Jeeps are not known for longevity or reliability. It's pretty much common knowledge that they are the most unreliable and unpredictable vehicles on the road.

That's a fact, backed by empirical data. No matter how much you want to delude yourself or say how your Jeep has been flawless in 300k miles of driving, or how your granddaddy drove one a million miles and fixed it with nothing but bailing wire and duct tape.

You know what? Your Jeep isn't going to win any drag races, nor is it going to win any other kind of race. It does ONE thing well, and that is traverse terrain. Why? Because it has solid axles and is compact. There is nothing magical about a Jeep. Nothing but a numbers game.

And the Toyota 4Runner is no slouch off-road, either. In fact, Google "4Runner vs. Jeep wrangler unlimited" and one of the first articles that appears has the writers saying the 4Runner is actually superior to the Jeep off-road.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/toyota...-ar165630.html

"Just like putting lipstick on a pig, the Sahara edition doesn’t change the fact the Wrangler is a hard-core off-roader to its soul. That characteristic shines through no matter what terrain the Jeep rolls across, for better or worse. The 4Runner on the other hand, is like putting bacon on a sandwich. It was good to begin with, but with the added goodies, it performs all the better. The 4Runner is the more competent on-road handler yet still outperforms the Sahara edition Wrangler on the trail. Much of that can be attributed to the TRD Pro’s more aggressive tires and upgraded suspension.

The Wrangler Rubicon version would be more equally matched to the 4Runner TRD Pro’s prowess in the dirt, but the upgrade wouldn’t change the Jeep’s rough and tumble interior and less than stellar Uconnect system. From the driver’s prospective, the 4Runner is just a more comfortable vehicle on and off the road."

So deal with that.

Still want to continue to insult my vehicle? Do you really want to compare a 4Runner to the same size Jeep Wrangler unlimited in terms of reliability?

I can throw facts backed by empirical data at you all day long.

But it sounds like you subscribe to the Joe Biden philosophy; "We choose truth over facts."

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and look at the typical life of a jeep and the life of a 4 runner and its like comparing an infantry soldier to a ballerina. That said I have no doubt the Toyota would out last the jeep if they both only saw road use. For that matter so would a Tahoe or a ford suv. All I can say is if you think that sport utility soccer mom unit or any of the suvs on the market can follow me in my jeep in the back country. (im not talking a 2 lane dirt road) then grab one and take a couple grand out of the bank and come on up and we can do a little wager. I know 3 or 4 trails that ill show you and let you pick. 3 of them I doubt youd get a 4 door wrangler down. You worry about "U CONNECT" and "more confortable ride" ill worry about mud up to the top of my hood. I knew it was a yuppie review when I saw them bragging on soft touch leather!!!!