Defender alloy Magnolia Metals Co. New York

[RogerDat]

Wonder if anyone knows the composition of this lead based Babbitt or bearing metal. Ingots stamped Defender Magnolia Metals Company New York. Plenty of internet mention of the product, Magnolia is still in business. However it appears they don't like sharing the alloy composition.

Found 8# of it and figure it was a lead based metal by how it melted, too slowly for tin based Babbitt but the splats would bead up decently so some tin. Fine grain and hard enough to break. All the lead based bearing alloys I can find composition on are over 70% lead with between 9 and 15 percent antimony. Few percent tin.

I don't really like to bother with testing an 8# score, may just treat it as running close to linotype and throw it into a large enough batch that it won't make much difference if it is slightly different alloy than that. If a batch of Hardball is 50 lbs. of linotype and 50 lbs. of plain that 8 lbs. of Defender used as part of the 50 lbs. of linotype won't throw it off by much and probably toward better alloy than worse.

Still if someone knows what the Defender bearing metal is in terms of alloy composition I would appreciate hearing what it is. Best is always to use relatively known ingredients when mixing up a batch. Link to the product page of the company https://magnoliabronze.com/products/babbitts/

[RogerDat]

Contacted the manufacturer directly. 82% Pb, 11% Sb, 6.5% Sn With a little bit of "mystery" left over. My guess is copper is part of that as is graphite.

Second item down in this list of pictures and general use descriptions.
https://magnoliabronze.com/products/babbitts/

All in all not a bad scrap yard find. Fairly close to linotype. Little higher in tin, little lower in antimony as compared to 4/12 of linotype.

[madsenshooter]

Should be very good as is for 2000+fps loads.

[lightman]

Thats a nice score! You find a lot of cool and useful stuff. I'm a little envious because none of the scrap yards around here will sell to the public.

[RogerDat]

Thats a nice score! You find a lot of cool and useful stuff. I'm a little envious because none of the scrap yards around here will sell to the public.

They are getting scarce around here too. One I have been going to for years was purchased by a big company. No more public sales.

The concern from the company is there is a liability issue with customers wandering around the yard and digging through stuff. I don't know of any "incidents" where customers have gotten hurt in the decades while the yard was privately owned but I suppose between the companies lawyers and liability insurance carrier it probably makes good sense.

I'm hoping this fall to organize my lead and incorporate the scrounging goodies into useful alloys. Bought some of those nice group buy ingot molds. I need to figure out how much of what I should be buying to have a good supply of useful alloy. Might need some WW and/or plain lead because a little printing lead goes a long way.

While this stuff is good "as is" it is slightly different than anything else, and only 8 pounds. I like having larger batches that are consistent so this will probably get calculated into some larger batch.

I do like the finding of the odd items, then learning what they are, how they were used etc. I once found a lino block with a dress pattern advertisement but it had been damaged. I was bummed.

[lightman]

Yeah, I'm sure its a liability issue for them. Trucks coming in and out and heavy equipment working can create a dangerous environment. I use to think it was because of all of the stolen copper that they were buying!

I'm past the point of needing the lead anymore but I did enjoy looking through their bins and finding the odd stuff. I still enjoy the hunt!

Like you, I also like to use large batches because of the consistency. I've posted smelting pictures here in the past so many of you have seen my set-up. My pot will hold nearly 400# and I label those ingots as a batch.

[RogerDat]

Yeah, I'm sure its a liability issue for them. Trucks coming in and out and heavy equipment working can create a dangerous environment. I use to think it was because of all of the stolen copper that they were buying!

I'm past the point of needing the lead anymore but I did enjoy looking through their bins and finding the odd stuff. I still enjoy the hunt!

Like you, I also like to use large batches because of the consistency. I've posted smelting pictures here in the past so many of you have seen my set-up. My pot will hold nearly 400# and I label those ingots as a batch.

I do think I recall a pot big enough to boil Hansel & Gretel in.

To do batches that large I have to do 4 batches. Then cross mix ingots from each batch so the final 100# is made up of 25% from each of the 4 first run batches. Don't always have to do that but for things like print spacers which can vary, or when mixing a final alloy I find mixing equal amount of ingots from each batch into a single batch provides for greater consistency.

Don't you just hate when you do a big batch, have it tested and find out "nuts" it is 1 or 2 percent shy of some element so one has a choice. Re-melt and add something, or just live with the shortfall. I can end up sitting in a lawn chair for good piece thinking on that choice.

Yeah so much neet stuff at a scrap yard. I did enjoy finding it, even if I didn't buy it. Soon I plan on doing an inventory, I have a feeling I will be trying to stock up on COWW lead. Or soft plain lead. When I retire I certainly don't want to be having to feed my habit on a fixed income.

[lightman]

I don't remember ever having a batch not work out. I seldom use anything besides wheel weights and I carefully hand sort them. Any unknown stuff that gets added gets the acid test before I melt it.

[RogerDat]

I do the acid test, also the melt test. Melt know lead to just liquid and then dip the "unknown" in it. Doesn't take much Zn to keep it from melting. I also do same with some suspected pewter. If the item has the right thumbnail hardness, is soft enough to bend etc. I'll start a pot with some known pewter, take temperature to barely liquid and then test the unknown piece. If it melts like pewter at that temperature it is some sort of pewter alloy.

My WW's all get nipped with dikes to test if they are soft. Sitting in a chair, tray with 2 inch sides on my lap full of WW's, just pick up, nip, toss into appropriate bucket. Repeat. Listen to music or watch a movie while I do it. Wife used to let me put down a tarp and work in the house, then she was given a nice area rug by one of the kids and now I'm kicked outside or into the basement. Sigh I had it sooo good.