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Thread: Uberti '66 issues. Cant get to load.

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Uberti '66 issues. Cant get to load.

    I just picked up a what looks like a never fired 1866 24" yellowboy in 45 colt. I cast for handguns and have a 200gr lyman 452460 mold and a NOE 453-238-SWC. Well, I went through about a dozen dummy rounds and couldn't get them to load. I could get them drop into the barrel and eject but not initially load.



    I looked at some factory 250gr colt rounds I have I appears the crimp is significant. I may not be crimping enough, I can't really tell. The lyman 452460 seems like a smaller bullet and does not seem to want to load less than 1.60. Any passed that it there's no spot for the crimp to dig into. The NOE 238gr has plenty but still coulnt get that to work.



    I have the RCBS cowboy set of dies. It seats and roll crimps together which I don't like and might get a separate crimp die. That should be a roll crimp correct, not a taper?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Exactly what do you mean by "not initially load" and "coulnt get that to work"?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Edit:

    I just did my research and forgot I had a 45acp factory crimp die AND a taper crimp die. I tried the factory crimp die on the NOE 238gr, another dummy round, and it actually fed 3 out of 5 times so there's progress. The 200gr still hung up on the barrel. I think I'll try the 45 taper crimp and maybe order a 45 colt factory crimp die.

    Do people polish and bevel the beginning of the barrel on these Ubertis? Kind of like polishing the feed ramp of a 1911?

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Exactly what do you mean by "not initially load" and "coulnt get that to work"?
    Load from using the lever. The jam in the breech. I however can drop them in from the top into the barrel fine.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I think you may have to play around with COAL to find a load that will feed reliably. 45 Colt lever guns can be finicky.
    NRA Life
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    F&AM

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    LEver guns are not fond of swc shapes. My 1866 feeds RN or RNFP or TC without any issues. Yes you always need a crimp. of some kind.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Second, fredj338

    You need a Different Bullet Profile.
    Lee makes a #452-255-RF in both 2cav & 6cav molds. It has a proper roll crimping groove, a wise choice for a tube magazine feed rifle.
    I feel the Lee 2cav molds are a good starter choice when there is a 6cav offered. It's a cheap way to see if you & your gun like a bullet.
    My 25yr old Uberti 66 loves it.
    The Lyman #452664 is also a great mold, it's still offered in 2cav & 4cav.

    If your Rifle is in "New" condition, it might need a little love. Look a the chamber opening, could be a burr or something preventing proper chambering.
    I know it kinda hard to believe that the case mouth itself could be causing it. But it does happen. A little work polishing the all around the chamber mouth with a bit of #0000 steel wool wrapped around the eraser end of a new pencil is what I have used in the past.

    And believe it or not a bit of case deburring may help. There won't be any square edge on the cartridge to catch it if you try that Lyman #452460, but SWC's are just a poor choice. They just don't feed reliably.
    I HATE auto-correct


    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    Second, fredj338

    You need a Different Bullet Profile.
    Lee makes a #452-255-RF in both 2cav & 6cav molds. It has a proper roll crimping groove, a wise choice for a tube magazine feed rifle.
    I feel the Lee 2cav molds are a good starter choice when there is a 6cav offered. It's a cheap way to see if you & your gun like a bullet.
    My 25yr old Uberti 66 loves it.
    The Lyman #452664 is also a great mold, it's still offered in 2cav & 4cav.

    If your Rifle is in "New" condition, it might need a little love. Look a the chamber opening, could be a burr or something preventing proper chambering.
    I know it kinda hard to believe that the case mouth itself could be causing it. But it does happen. A little work polishing the all around the chamber mouth with a bit of #0000 steel wool wrapped around the eraser end of a new pencil is what I have used in the past.

    And believe it or not a bit of case deburring may help. There won't be any square edge on the cartridge to catch it if you try that Lyman #452460, but SWC's are just a poor choice. They just don't feed reliably.
    I have that mold, but mine is for 200 grain. Never had any issues getting them to chamber in my R92 Rossi .45 Colt.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    The '92 action feeds completely different from the earlier Win Action type.

    The 1860, 1866, 1873, 1876 feed from the magazine onto an "elevator" that raises the cartridge on a level plain. The bolt pushes the cartridge straight into the chamber. A short cartridge OAL is Extremely important.

    The 1886, 1892 use a cartridge "lifter" that pivots at the back and raises the front of the lifter and pushes the cartridge UP and into the chamber at an angle. Cartridge OAL is not as critical.
    I HATE auto-correct


    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

  10. #10
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    Congrats on your find/purchase! I have one in .44-40, an A. Uberti, Brescia, Italy Model 1866 Yellowboy Carbine, imported by Stoeger, Accokeek, Md., 44-40 WCF, 10 rnd., 19” barrel), and it has taken/fired everything I chambered -- ALL home-cast loads.
    I'd think the cartridge overall length -- 1.60" -- is critical, as is full-length sizing. In another firearm (.45LC) I cast, load, and shoot the NOE 454-260-RF ADI 32 which functions quite nicely. I'd think (?) that a fully-sized case trimmed to correct length (if necessary), roll crimped, and loaded to a few thousandths less than COL should function quite nicely. Hence, the culprit may indeed be your bullet: e.g., what are you sizing it to? SOME .45LC -- early ones, from what I understand, used bullets sized to 0.454", while many newer ones use 0.452" sizing.
    If it was MY firearm, I'd spring for a box of factory ammo. First, I'd take 1/3rd of the box to range, attempt shooting, and hopefully return home with a warm and fuzzy feeling that the firearm as well as firearm and this ammo work well.
    Upon getting home (irrespective of cleaning, safe storage, etc.) I'd draw a huge sketch of one of the factory rounds, break out the micrometers, and take/record ALL measurements. If you're OCD and have a smart-phone, you can take/print a photo of one to use instead of a sketch... I'd take a break/do something else for a bit, and RE-measure all of factory round. "Measure twice" works, imho, on ammo as well as, say, before cutting lumber .
    Then -- either make a 2nd sketch or print a 2nd photo -- and similarly measure the case you're having difficulty with. Logic suggests there HAS to be a difference. If all measurement are the same -- then, the ONE conclusion suggested it MUST be the bullet shape.
    Working well for my .45LC Winchester is the NOE 454-260-RF Click image for larger version. 

Name:	NOE 45LC.JPG 
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ID:	246534, which I size to 0.453". Good luck!

    geo

    NOTE: Ignore "thumbnail" -- I clicked wrong image, and cannot seem to edit/erase it. g
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	453-238 SWC-2 (453423).JPG 
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ID:	246533  
    Last edited by georgerkahn; 08-10-2019 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Wrong image clicked... oops

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by psychbiker View Post
    Load from using the lever. The jam in the breech. I however can drop them in from the top into the barrel fine.
    As mentioned;

    if the carrier doesn't lift the cartridge up to the chamber it is the over all length. Seating deeper or longer can cure that or a change to a different bullet nose profile that has the crimp groove in the correct location.

    If the bullet is lifted up by the carrier but is hanging up on the sides of the barrel at the chamber mouth then a different bullet profile is needed.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    In a 66 or a Henry or a 73 OAL of the round is critical. Too long and they won't come up the carrier and too short and the next round protrudes into the carrier and either makes for a hard working lever or no feed at all. The cahmberd on the 45 colt Ubertis are plenty large as is and need no further work. A good full length resize and a smooth crimp are all that's needed.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy TMenezes's Avatar
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    My 1866 likes a shorter, round shoulder, flat nose profile. Such as the Lee 252 RSFP in either the 200gr or 250gr format. It does NOT care for any semi wadcutter design. If you are going to try to run them, the shorter/blunter the better. Also working the lever quickly and decisively helps a lot for reliable feeding. If you baby it at all by going slow it will find a way to hang up on a semi wadcutter.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy masscaster's Avatar
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    I've only ever used and sold the Lyman #454190 in the Uberti's. Use a magic marker and color the boolit, then cycle it to see what's hitting and stopping it.

    Jeff
    I'm an over indulged Hobby Caster with 150 + moulds and 40+ years of experience
    Any Questions?

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masscaster View Post
    I've only ever used and sold the Lyman #454190 in the Uberti's. Use a magic marker and color the boolit, then cycle it to see what's hitting and stopping it.

    Jeff
    That bullet should feed in any lever gun.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

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    AS stated OAL is critical. .015 either way can cause problems. These rifles used the lifter for the cartridge stop. To short and the next round overhangs onto the carrier locking it up to long and It doesn't clear the tube frame and cant raise up. This is the nature of these earlier repeaters. I have one of the Henry originals (44-40) and its feed and function is very critical of overall length for this reason. Since rounds will drop in by hand neck dia and sizing sound good.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy mehavey's Avatar
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    The 66/73 (etc) actions will NOT feed semi-wadcutters reliably

    They hang up on the ledge.

    Get a smooth shaped bullet (like the classic Lyman 454190) and roll crimp just above the top grease groove/into the ogive section to achieve a 1.6"(-) OAL and walk away

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Dusty sent me a bunch of 3 different bullets, a 200gr, 230gr, and 250gr. They are all Lee mold and none are SWC. I made some dummy rounds after sizing to .453. All fed and cycled no issues. I will note I decided not to use the seat and crimp RCBS cowboy die for crimping. I’m only using it for seating. I bought the Lee factory COLLET crimp die and used that.

    I also had to try the noe 247gr swc again and it works now. I have it around 1.575 in depth and used the collet crimp and it cycled no problem.


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check