The Kit Gun, revisited

[Petrol & Powder]

boatswainmate - that 43 is sweet ! Alloy frame, 3.5" barrel. Great set up.
MT Gianni - I'll second your comments on the 32 S&W long. I wish there were more guns for that cartridge. It is cheap to re-load, can be very accurate, hits harder than a 22 and spare ammo is easy to carry.
Outpost75 - Thank you for sharing the photos of the Colts. I too am a huge fan of 3" barrels for DA revolvers and I own several but none of them are Colts.

[Thumbcocker]

I have been searching for the perfect "kit gun" for many years. I think a person needs several of them for various situations. I have a model 63 4" that is loads of fun but I prefer a reloadable cartridge, a Smith model 18 is also a good candidate. A smith 30 or 31 is a good candidate and doesn't weigh much. Years ago there was an article in one of the magazines where the author had a model 30 tricked out with adjustable sights and it was a pretty little gun. Then we get into the K frame Smiths a model 15 would be a good choice. But then I get to arguing with myself about how many similar sized .357's there are that give you the option of more horse power. Then I get to thinking about maybe a bigger hole might be a good idea depending on one's location. How about a GP100 5 shot 3" .44 special. Light charges with wadcutters or Skeeter's load or there abouts. Of course there was that run of Bisley .44 mags with 3.75" barrels. For a caster/ loader a very versatile pistol .433 round balls to 300 grain boolits.

I envy you all who have found your ideal "kit gun". I have all of the above revolvers and still haven't found the perfect kit gun. I am currently working with a sp101 in .327 and some 100 grain wadcutters in .32 long brass. Don't feel too sorry for me because I haven't found THE kit gun yet. I am having a load of fun looking. Heck maybe the journey is the destination.

[Petrol & Powder]

Thumbcocker - I can tell you with absolute certainty that, The Journey IS the destination !

[T_McD]

My choice is the LCRX in .22lr. Capacity means more to me than caliber, pretty much requiring .22

I will say I dislike how the star ejector gets pushed past empty cases. It’s not terribly difficult to fix but one would think a revolver should be able to eject cases with ease.

[Larry Gibson]

Back in the day when I first read about "kit guns" they were generally accepted to be small frame revolvers with 4" or shorter barrels with fixed sights (shorter was preferred). They were chambered in smaller caliber less recoiling rounds of 22LR to 38 SPL but mostly were 22LR or 32 S&WL in small frame revolvers. There were of H&R, Iver Johnson, S&W and an occasional small frame Colt. The Ruger Bearcat also received some press as a "kit gun". While they could be carried in a belt holster they The "kit" was they were supposed to be left in a tackle box while fishing or in a day/back pack while hunting and used for small game and pests. The small 22LR revolver with the old shot loads was favored when fishing in cotton mouth or water moccasin waters.

My first "kit gun" as such was a 38 S&W H&R revolver with shot loads for rattlesnakes when out shooting rock chucks and ground squirrels. It was replaced by a M36 Chief SPL in 38 SPL with 1 7/8" barrel in '72. These days my S&W M30 with 3" barrel in 32 S&WL is my preferred "kit gun". However, these days I also consider my Ruger SS (original run) in 32 H&R as my "kit gun" even though it is carried in a belt holster. It's light weight and hardly noticed when carrying.

Attachment 246269

[slughammer]

Char-Gar, thank for sharing that photo....................
................
The barrel on that 64 looks more tapered than any of the ones I could find. If I had located one of those, I would have been extremely happy.

That photo has an adjustable sight, looks like a 63.

PA only allows manually operated for hunting and fishing carry; but I never cared for the accuracy of my J-Frame model 63 or the shootability compared to any K framed 22.
I've always thought if one of the requirements of a Kit Gun is fixed sights, then my pencil barrel Ruger Mark I would do the job nicely. A box of 50 shells fits in the palm of my hand and the Mark I shoots as good as any K-Frame.

[Thumbcocker]

I think we have an opportunity here. I would wager that the folks responding to this thread have at least a couple of centuries of time spent hunting, fishing camping and wood bumming. So why don't we set out our criteria for what a kit gun should be. I am not talking about caliber or type of gun but what criteria are we looking for? What size / weight requirements? does the weight include ammunition ie gun and 50 rounds of ammo weighing not more than _____. What purpose is the kit gun to serve? plinking ? Small game for camp? fun shooting? I don't think of a kit gun as protection from bad guys? If I knew I was going to a gun fight I would probably call in sick. Also I don't really need to protect myself from bears. The last critter that showed aggression towed me was a half grown raccoon who got his foot caught in the bird feeder. The ungrateful little sucker growled and charged me after I got his foot loose.. He was repelled with a swift kick from a tactical croc. The next most recent critter that got annoyed with me was a large sow at a hunting ranch. She was upset about my role in the demise of some of her kin. But in that case I was hunting with a .44 magnum.


I read an article written after WWII where the author championed the many surplus .32 autos for the kit gun role. His accuracy standard was a group the size of a 50 cent piece at (IIRC) 50 feet. Soooo what say you all? What characteristics, accuracy, portability, power, etc. does our kit gun need? Do these things change west of the Mississippi?

[Char-Gar]

The basis of my understanding of a Kit Gun comes from my experience in the rain forest of Ecuador with the indigenous people. I was flown in by a light airplane to a grass strip cut from the rain forest. I was there for a week to ten days until the plane came back. I was the only white person within two weeks walk. I hunted with the men in the village using a Colt Huntsman 22 pistol that I took into Ecuador totally against the law. If I knew the way out, which I didn't it would weeks to get out. I had no ammo in the truck for there were no trucks. There were no stores when I could buy ammo or reloading componets. All I had was what I could carry in a small duffel.

In those circumstances a smallish stainless steel revolver in 22 LR seemed like the best idea. I wanted a firearm I could depend on under extreme weather conditions and extreme remote place. I also didn't want a back breaking load of ammo. 500 rounds of 38 Special weights a whole bunch more than 500 rounds of 22 LR.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, that's a tall order BUT here goes:

I think for a revolver the maximum size would be a 4" barrel (3" may be better) on something no larger than a medium frame (S&W K-frame or Colt D frame)

Weight - well less is more here but 2 1/4 pounds (36 ounces) empty which works out to just about a kilogram.

Ammunition weight - I think enough ammo for 6 rounds in the gun and 18 more rounds would be a decent benchmark. With full wadcutters in 38 Special casings that is about 15 grams per cartridge. 24 rounds at 15 grams each is 360 grams - which is just under 13 ounces. If you dropped down to a smaller cartridge such as a 32 S&W Long or a .22 LR, you could carry a lot more for the same weight.

Use - informal plinking, pest control and small game of opportunity. So probably a wadcutter.

A 1 kilogram gun that's no longer than 25cm (just under 10") and 360 grams (just under 13 ounces) of ammo.

The gun and gear needs to be as weather proof as possible.

None of the above is carved in stone or considered holy writ.

[glaciers]

Well I would vote for the model 63 as I have one and have used it for years. Stainless, 22 LR, light, I believe it's right at 25 oz. Its accurate, and handy. My only thing I would change is from the 4" to a 3" bbl. It would have to fit in my pocket and a box of 50 would be in my shirt pocket.
Now this is if I had to pick "the" kit gun. Heaven forbid that misfortune.
The new model 63 is a 8 shot with a 3" bbl. and over $700.

[Petrol & Powder]

The S&W Model 63 is getting a lot of love on this thread.

[georgerkahn]

While I agree with your thoughts vis the .22 as a kit gun, having both the
S&W 63 and its .22 mag cousin, I also moved to the .38 scene. My choice?
A Ruger SP101 fills the bill for me 😀😀😀.

[glaciers]

Yeah As I stated earlier the SP 101 3" 357 I have is an out standing pocket gun. But for a kit gun I'd still go with the 63. Unless it was self defense from 2 or 4 legged critters was in the mix. But a box of 357 mag or 38 SPL are right at 2 pounds, while a box of 50 22 Lr is 1/3 of a pound.

[onelight]

I like this class of guns and there are a lot of good choices .
For my use I prefer adjustable sights or at least dovetailed the sights and a good trigger , these usually are going to determine the distance I can connect reliably with a quarter sized target .
In the past I have used a variety of small autos and revolvers in the “KIT GUN” niche and collected a lot of small game with them.
My favorites today are a Ruger adjustable sight bearcat , sp101s in 327 or 357 the 4.2” single seven 45/8 and a Bersa thunder 22 and a S&W. Mod.63
The one I carry depends on where I am going and what my primary purpose is for going there. It seems these days it’s more thinking about doing it than doing it.

[charlie b]

I think we have an opportunity here. I would wager that the folks responding to this thread have at least a couple of centuries of time spent hunting, fishing camping and wood bumming. So why don't we set out our criteria for what a kit gun should be. I am not talking about caliber or type of gun but what criteria are we looking for? What size / weight requirements? does the weight include ammunition ie gun and 50 rounds of ammo weighing not more than _____. What purpose is the kit gun to serve? plinking ? Small game for camp? fun shooting?......

I read an article written after WWII where the author championed the many surplus .32 autos for the kit gun role. His accuracy standard was a group the size of a 50 cent piece at (IIRC) 50 feet. Soooo what say you all? What characteristics, accuracy, portability, power, etc. does our kit gun need? Do these things change west of the Mississippi?

I thought that was what we were doing. At least that is what I consider the definition of a Kit Gun.

If my Colt 1903 was not so rust prone, then it would have been an ideal kit gun for many as well. More accurate than I was with the .32ACP and very low recoil. I had some good sights installed on it (it had been refinished at least once). The size made it a joy to shoot. The only reason I got rid of it was trying to find the brass after shooting it.

But, I include slightly larger targets for my field (kit) gun so a 9mm or .38spl is a minimum for me (larger than squirrel, smaller than man). .38spl has an added benefit of taking a decent size shot load for snakes as well as being able to use very light loads for plinking/rodents.

Yes, light and handy are two of the other criteria (which is why I like the 3" revolvers), and weatherproof (days of rain without cleaning) is the other big one.

[Thumbcocker]

I actually let a Glock 19 audition for kit gun but it didnt make the grade.

[GhostHawk]

I have you might say a kit gun in each of my vehicles. In both cases Phoenix Arm's HP-22 in .22lr. Wifes has the short barrel. Mine has a longer barrel. Fixed sights, 10 rounds per mag. Both guns live in zippered cases with 2 loaded mags neither one in the gun. Leaving the gun unloaded, chamber empty. Also there is a 100 round box of ammo. Both zippered cases fit in the drivers door pocket.

I have practiced, I need somewhere between 10 and 15 seconds to slam home a mag and rack the action. At that point it is ready to rock and roll. In 2 years neither has ever been shot anywhere but at the range. I had a neighbor who was a vet, army ranger, 14 years service, 3 tours in the sandbox. He loved it, called it the james bond gun.

My other kit gun is a H&R 732 double/single action in .32sw long, 2.5" barrel. At 20 feet it will give my 6" Ruger NMSS a tough fight.
The ruger wins eventually, but the little H&R is good. It also lives in a small zippered bag with a speed loader and a 100 round box of ammo and a IWB holster. If I am going to carry, that's what I carry.

The 2 .22lr I have about 250$ in the pair, very reasonable. The H&R was I think 230$ with FFL fee and shipping.

Fun stuff.

Funny my army ranger neighbor was having trouble hitting the broad side of the barn with the H&R.

So I loaded it, took classic one handed duelers stance, fired 6 shots quickly, all inside the 1" circle on a stick on bullseye.

I brought the target back from 20 feet. He looked, his eyes got big. He looked again. "How in heck you do dat"

LOL, "I used the Force man" It was a perfect double triangle, one point up, one down, wide sides almost touching.

"Where you learn to shoot like that"

I'm an ol farm boy, you don't hit what your shooting at you don't eat.
That and practice.

[onelight]

Seems like i remember a story from one of Elmer Kieths books where he gave his son a 22/32 kit gun he was a smoke jumper , and apparently it could take a day or two to walk out some times so he had the 22 to get dinner.

[Goldstar225]

My kit gun is a 3" S&W model 60-15 Pro series. I would have preferred the standard 60-15 with the full lug barrel but couldn't find one. I wanted accuracy, light weight, and compact size. The 60-15 delivers that in spades and is virtually unnoticed in a Bianchi 5BHL hip holster. While I mostly carry .38 loads (with two shotshells up first in the field) it gives me the option to use .357 if I chose to. It is very nearly as accurate as my S&W model 15 but is 2/3 the weight.

[RJM52]

Petrol....nice outcome for all your diligence....

FYI, there were early pencil barrel Model 64 Smiths...a friend of mine who worked as a security guard back in the 1970s had one... He just sold it about two years ago...was in mint condition...

My two favorite Kit Guns are the S&W 60-10 .357 Magnum with adjustable sights and the Taurus Titanium Tracker .41 Magnum. I used to carry a couple of different .22s but after due consideration about what I may have to shoot with the gun, I decided that a centerfire made more sense.