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Thread: The Kit Gun, revisited

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Krumhunger View Post
    If you can live with the homely appearance, a Ruger LCRX 38 with the adjustable sight and 3”(?) barrel makes a lightweight, easy to tote Kit Gun.
    It looks like it would be great we have the lcr but I have no experience with 3" lcrx. I need to rent one and try it out..

  2. #82
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    Great thread! My kit gun right now is a Ruger SP101 with a 3 inch barrel in .357. I couldn't pass it up for the price. $300. It was like new. I like that I can carry both .38 or .357 if needed. I cast the Lee 158 rnfp and it shoots great out of it. I could also take my S&W M&P in 9mm. It is light and deadly accurate. That is my main SD gun. Or there are various .22's. Hmm, so many guns, so little time.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    My experience over the years has substantiated to me that 20-oz. is a practical maximum for pocket carry. A 2-pound combined weight of revolver, basic, simple holster and ammunition is a useful planning standard for a kit gun. Longer sight radius helps, as do a Tyler T-grip on service stocks or better hand-filling grips.

    Your mileage may vary, but to me near-perfection a 4" Airweight S&W Model 12 K-frame .38 Special, or pencil-barrel 3" or 4" Colt D-frame Detective Special, Police Positive or Cobra in .38 Special with wadcutters. Also good are a 3" S&W Model 30, 31, 36, 33, 60, etc. any of which fill the bill rather nicely.

    I prefer center-fires in .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W or .38 Special to any rimfires. More reliable ignition and greater smash. But, I don't foresee any threat of extended firefights with Secret Squirrels, or rabid Bunny Wabbits, so six rounds in the gun and 12-18 rounds of spare ammo carried in speed strips or zippered CountyComm keycase in pockets are adequate for most weekend outings.

    As Mentor Jerry would say, Just my opinion.
    That's in line with my thoughts. .22 RF has a place but a larger, flat nosed bullet of a centerfire seems a bit more useful overall.
    A 4" Model 12 with a tapered barrel would be ideal, if you can find one. One of the Colt airweights would be a good substitute, although they are approaching the stratosphere in terms of price these days.

    Any of the J-frames chambered in 32 S&W long with a 4" barrel and a Tyler T-grip would be great. A steel frame in that little J-frame configuration wouldn't add enough weight to matter and I'm with Char-Gar, a little extra weight might even be desirable at that point.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 08-18-2019 at 09:24 AM.

  4. #84
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    Another Smith I thought I'd throw into the mix is my S&W Model 317 in 22LR. It has been a good little hip pocket woods carry revolver. And over the years the trigger pull has honed down to 3 pounds. It is more accurate than you would expect.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #85
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    Love this thread! I have been taking the kit gun "journey" since 1968 or so when I picked up a S&W m35. Traded it for a m-34 as more portable, but I still mourn that m-35! Still have the m-34, its a keeper. at the moment I have the above mentioned m-34, a 4" m31 38S&W, a 4" M-30 32 long, a 3" m-60-10, a 4.2" sp101 357, and a Ruger 32 H&R SSM 4 5/8. all get carried around the homestead, depending on my mood.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbcocker View Post
    I actually let a Glock 19 audition for kit gun but it didnt make the grade.
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  7. #87
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    The Original Kit Gun, Colt Frontier Six Shooter 5-1/2" .44-40, this one made 1905:

    Attachment 261893
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-09-2020 at 07:46 PM.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJames View Post
    Another Smith I thought I'd throw into the mix is my S&W Model 317 in 22LR. It has been a good little hip pocket woods carry revolver. And over the years the trigger pull has honed down to 3 pounds. It is more accurate than you would expect.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I remember these and looking at them. I had a 63 (gone now) in those days and never thought to get one of these. I remember they were super light. Like a cap gun.
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  9. #89
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    The Original Kit Gun:

    Attachment 246800
    Look at that beauty!
    I find it interesting all this talk about a kit gun being a revolver. The logical choice would be a poly frames automatic would it not? Less weight, more reliability, more shots stored inside the weapon. Only downside would be if needing huge knock down power for killing elk or bear or something. Not that I’m against the idea, but my kit gun is a Glock, and a ruger PCC, both in 9mm.

    Shoot, I didn’t mean to interject that kind of contrary opinion, so please don’t respond. I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.

  10. #90
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    Look at that beauty!... I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.
    When weather permits I'll shoot some groups with vintage 1930s WRA and Rem-UMC balloon-head factory rounds, as well as some black powder, cast bullet handloads, and pattern a few of my home-made shot loads assembled in Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases. Father of previous owner used the gun to feed the family during the Depression. Made in 1906. Used to kill everything from bunnies to Bad Guys.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    Look at that beauty!
    I find it interesting all this talk about a kit gun being a revolver. The logical choice would be a poly frames automatic would it not? Less weight, more reliability, more shots stored inside the weapon. Only downside would be if needing huge knock down power for killing elk or bear or something. Not that I’m against the idea, but my kit gun is a Glock, and a ruger PCC, both in 9mm.

    Shoot, I didn’t mean to interject that kind of contrary opinion, so please don’t respond. I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.
    That's a good point . Revolvers have some advantages to my way of thinking for the kit gun role they can shoot really light loads for small game and the same gun can shoot long heavy bullets for big game , they don't pitch your brass out in the weeds and most importantly revolver kit guns give us a reason to have more guns.

  12. #92
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    I think mentioning the automatic as a possible kit gun is certainly in order. However, even tho' I carried some .22 Auto's in my early days, the .22 was rejected by me in favor of centerfires. The centerfire autos pitched brass everywhere, most small autos weren't accurate enough for small game (at least for me) and most had less than perfect triggers, etc. I can remember one of my Dad's early small autos. It was in .380. The standard factory load in those days, was a jacketed round nose, of course. I can remember shooting that at an old farm gate, that was probably built from oak timber from the farm. It was a nominal 1" oak board. Shot at point blank range, to check penetration, the bullet just buried itself flush in the board. My standard full charge wadcutter in a .38 Special blew right through the board...

    Sounds ridiculous, but it is a true statement. After, that, coupled with it's sorry sights, I lost all interest in pursuing that.

    The kit gun, for me, was a walk around edible small game gun that could be called upon for somewhat more strenuous duty (feral dogs were the most dangerous in my area of the country - although those two legged feral dogs, I suppose could present a problem). The .32's and .38's handled all of my needs.

    I do admit that using bigger calibers worked quite well, too, if a good bit bulkier and heavier. Frankly, size didn't make much difference to me unless I was carrying a long gun rifle or shotgun) then it became more important.

    FWIW
    Dale53

  13. #93
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    When weather permits I'll shoot some groups with vintage 1930s WRA and Rem-UMC balloon-head factory rounds, as well as some black powder, cast bullet handloads, and pattern a few of my home-made shot loads assembled in Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases. Father of previous owner used the gun to feed the family during the Depression. Made in 1906. Used to kill everything from bunnies to Bad Guys.
    Yep, I have one in 32-20 from 1898, it was me great great grandfathers. Now that you mention the downside of crappy triggers in autos, I have to admit that the old 32-20 SAA did check all the OP’s boxes really, as it has a beautiful trigger and as a small rifle caliber handgun it was quite accurate, and the diminutive ammo could be carried in bulk easily. I’d probably have better chances eating squirrel with it than with my Glock that’s for sure.
    Has anyone made a repro SAA in stainless? Can’t say I’ve seen that

  14. #94
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    I carry a handgun most days (around the farm) and am always on the lookout for an "even better" packin' pistol.

    I first carried a flat-gate Ruger in 22LR.

    Then an old model Ruger (6 1/2") in 22 Magnum.

    Then a Standard Ruger semi-auto (4").

    Then a 6" Model 17 no dash (a 22 revolver made by S&W).

    Then an old model Ruger Blackhawk in .357 (6 1/2").

    Then, for a long time, a S&W Model 34 (22LR). I put a zillion miles on this one, by motorcycle, horse, 4 wheeler, and on foot. I carried it Elk hunting for a couple decades and shot "Fool Hens" that were so plentiful at the time.

    Then a S&W Model 60 w/adj. sights (a 2" .38 Special).

    Then a Ruger BearCat that almost cured me forever of buying fixed sighted handguns.

    Now I carry a S&W M&P 22 Compact. It weighs 1 pound, never falters, has a terrible trigger but I can still group pretty well with it. It probably won't be the last one, either.

    We have Griz all Spring and Summer now, and I go out on the 4 wheeler a lot. For a while I carried a Ruger New Model flattop in 44 Special w/heavily loaded hardcasts but it was more weight/bulk than I prefer to deal with. I still carry the Model 60 on fishing trips unless it's bad Griz country. Then I carry a Model 629 Classic (5') with heavily loaded .44 mag hardcasts.

  15. #95
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    Mine is a m15 S&W Combat Masterpiece with 4" barrel most days, but my 5-1/2" Ruger Single Six is a trusted companion as well. I'll be in the Rockies this week and my Ruger P97.45auto will be with me there, if needed.

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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    Look at that beauty!
    I find it interesting all this talk about a kit gun being a revolver. The logical choice would be a poly frames automatic would it not? Less weight, more reliability, more shots stored inside the weapon. Only downside would be if needing huge knock down power for killing elk or bear or something. Not that I’m against the idea, but my kit gun is a Glock, and a ruger PCC, both in 9mm.

    Shoot, I didn’t mean to interject that kind of contrary opinion, so please don’t respond. I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.
    Not at all. Some of us have carried semi-autos in the field a lot more often than revolvers. My current 'fishing' pistol is in 9mmMak. Cheap and accurate. I don't have to worry about it getting wet or ruining the finish. 9mmMak is not a very versatile caliber but it works. My pistol does not function reliably with less than normal loads. FWIW, Buffalo Bore sells some 'heavy' ammo for it (115gn cast 1000fps). They thump the hand pretty good.

  17. #97
    Boolit Man
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    To me a kit gun has a small frame and should weigh no more than about 25 oz. A K frame is just too big.
    I had a nice nickle plated Mod. 34 4" but it always had sticky ejection and I sold it.
    Now I have a Taurus Mod. 327 which gives the versatility of 5 different cartridges, .32ACP, .32S&W, .32S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .327 Federal Magnum. This covers everything from self defense to small game in a J frame size package. Mine has a 2" barrel. I was able to pick this up new a few years ago for $249. I would prefer a 3" barrel and adjustable sights.
    Handloads from round balls to JHP are possible. Tremendous variation in cast boolits can be used. I am watching for a deal on a SP101 in .327 to get the longer barrel and adjustable sights.
    I have a Beretta Model 81 on the way to arrive next week to go along with my Tomcat. These might be the best in auto kit guns.

  18. #98
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    Not an 81 but a M84

    Attachment 257927

    I still prefer revolvers of the J frame size but the Beretta 81 series are very nice and accurate, especially the M86. There was a Gun Digest article about a M84 in kit gun role.
    I’m looking forward to playing around with my new M81, waiting to get my bras containment right, those 32s are tiny! I hate the way bottom feeders sling my brass everwhere, forget about finding any of it in the woods. Revolvers just drop them in my hand when I am ready, much more polite.
    Last edited by rking22; 05-09-2020 at 09:48 PM.
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  19. #99
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    There are some pretty heavy guns being touted as kit guns. To my way of thinking, a kit gun with at least 2 reloads should weigh less than 2 pounds. It should have a barrel at least 3 inches long, but more is better.
    To me, that lets out the steel K-Frames, the 1911’s, most of the wonder nines and the fantastic plastic pistols and for excludes 1873 Colt Single Actions. Most steel framed 22 auto loaders will have a hard time making the cut as well.
    But there are a bunch of others that are exemplary. The fine old Police Positives in virtually any caliber they were offered in are just fine. My 6 inch 32-20 weighs only 28 ounces fully loaded with 100 grain ammo. 12 more rounds would bring it right up to the limit, but a 4 inch barreled version, would be an ounce or two lighter. The Browning 1911-22 is a dandy, mine weighs just over a pound, and even with a spare mag, and 50 rounds of ammunition comes in under two pounds. My beloved Colt Woodsman weighs 28 ounces, leaving 4 ounces for 30 odd rounds of 22’s and still making weight. And then there are the namesakes, S&W’s I and j-frames. I have a M-63 4 inch that rides on my hip on occasion, as well as a Model 60-18, a 5 inch 5 shot version chambered for .357 magnum. It tips the scales at 24 1/2 ounces and still makes weight with 15 rounds of 38 +P 125 grain Hollow Points. There are a slew of fine old 32.s that fit the bill, but I still hold that the true Kit Gun is a handgun that weighs less than 2 pounds with at least 2 reloads, is accurate enough to snipe a squirrel or a bunny at 60 feet, and is compact enough to be carried without interfering with your other stuff. Carry other stuff if you want, especially if you are more concerned with 2 legged varmints than 4, but don’t tell anybody your PDW is a kit gun
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  20. #100
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    I like your idea of a weight criteria and am also partial to 3" or longer barrels.

    But, two reloads of a 5 shot revolver means 15 rounds total. That's what the mag holds in many compact semi-autos (like my HK VP9). Two reloads means 45 rounds for that pistol! So, I would modify the criteria to be a certain total number of rounds to put everything on common ground weight wise. Something like a CZ82/83 will meet your 2lb limit with the 12rnd mag, 15rnd in .32acp (and they are all steel). Several sub-compact 9mm pistols also have double stack magazines. Even my old S&W 469 (alloy frame) had a 12rnd mag (13rnd with one in the chamber) and was within your limit.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check